AA S4 Series

[Ned]

Need some advice from the experts here please. I'm looking at the AA S400/S410 series. Just wondering the major differences firstly between the S400 and the S410 and then the difference between the Classic and Carbine?

I know the Carbine is shorter but does that affect the shot count per fill too?

I have been roaming previous threads and have come to the conclusion that the dive tank is the way to go over the hand pump option so thats a given, now just to find a decent 2nd hand one and at a decent price too. Out of interest in this regard, on the average FT comp there are 50 shots and about another 100 odd during sighting and such, would a huge tank be neccesary or could I look at a smaller bottle here? Dont really know what sizes there are but instead of a 10ltr are there 5ltrs or something?

And then the ultimate question, out the box is it good enough to start trying to compete or would it need mods?

[John141]

I'm an s400 ERB owner, but the main use is PC. Just interested to know why you want an unregulated PCP for FT, unless you do intend to carry around a bottle and keep her in the sweet spot? If that's the case, I also own a Hill's pump and I can say that its not a problem pumping it up to about 175bar, which is about where my rifle's sweet spot starts. A pump is less bulky and only a problem if you have physical limitations/fitness issue.

[Ned]

Uh....John141...

Unregulated PCP? Sorry, enlighten me please. I am seriously new to this so can use all the info I can get please.

[Andrew]

Pumps also have moisture issues and are generally more expensive than tanks. The 400 classic has more shots per fill than the carbine and some say better balance but then some say it's the other way around with balance so try them both or just go for the classic. The S400 is good out of the box and doesn't need fettling. The 410 is a multishot rifle with magazine, ok for hunting but not for FT because the pellet gets damaged ever so slightly when indexing and as such is slightly less accurate but good enough for hunting. FT rules also require to have the gun unloaded when moving on the range which would then entail repeated removal of the magazine, this wears thin.

[Andrew]

Originally Posted by Ned

Uh....John141...

Unregulated PCP? Sorry, enlighten me please. I am seriously new to this so can use all the info I can get please.

Higher end FT rigs have regulators which make sure the same velocity is maintained despite the fill pressure in the cylinder, this is for consistency but it is far from essential since the leader board is usually occupied in good part by unregulated S400's.

[miles]

The S400 will do the trick for a long time in FT and even if you do out grow it to a Race Gun it will hold its value and/or be a good all rounder for other use.

[John141]

hi Ned. Andrew is 100% correct, but here is some clarity from my side: the 'sweet spot' is the pressure range in your cylinder where the firing pressure is stable enough to ensure consistent shot power (ie very small variability). This consistency correlates with accuracy (but is not a sufficient condition for it), which is also why springer shooters put tuning kits in their rifles. Above or below this pressure range, the shot power and the accuracy varies. A regulator is a device for ensuring consistent shot power over the entire feasible range of pressures of your cylinder - so you can happily shoot it from 200bar to 100bar and know that shot power is within a narrow band. This is obviously best for FT, but as Andrew says, a lot of guys have 'learned' their S400's sweet spot so well that they can hold their own against regulated rifles.

Also, a regulator adds expense to the rifle, so regulated PCPs are almost always more expensive.

I don't know how the FT guys manage with tanks or pumps at the comps, but since FT rifles are all 12ftlb power, I don't think its a problem. I think you probably get over 80 12ftlb shots on the standard s400 cylinder fill, with most of that in the sweet spot.

At this point, someone who actually does FT is going to enter the conversation ..

[Jan The Man]

Ho diddly doodly Neighbourino! OK Enough Simpsons fun...

S400 Classic will easily last you a full 50 targets. Carbine will do it too allthough the margin of shot count will be less. Most people usually fill their rifles between sight-in and the main shoot.

Unless you are a big bloke that need extra long stock modifications , the S400 stock is fine and can be modified to suit you better should there be a need.

If you plan on mainly shooting FT , stick to the S400 as it is a single shot rifle. When fitting a large FT scope with a big sidewheel , the magazine of the S410 becomes tedeous to fit and remove as it fits from the sidewheel side of the scope and rifle.

Accuracy wise I still believe my S400 was capable enough to out group my EV2 in the right hands.

Out the box , most people would just fit a silencer.

Hope this info helps a bit. Where in S.A. are you located?

[Andrew]

Just to add, regulators make rifles less reliable than their unregulated cousins if you look at the big picture. This is not to say that you WILL have regulator problems but I can tell you with certainty that you will NOT have problems if you don't have one.

[Andrew]

Just to add, I'm pretty sure that the best result ever achieved in the world champs by a South African was with a pretty much standard S400.