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Thread: Single vs double stage

  1. #1
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    Default Single vs double stage

    I notice you guys go on about single stage, two stage triggers and flake two stage trigger. It seems most of you guys favor double stage and the more expensive guns have them. But why? As for as I am concerned it is a light crisp trigger that counts. two stage was invented for military bolt actions to prevent AD. But target guns, you don’t bump and drop and do anything with them so what’s wrong with a single stage? Most target handguns have single stage plus some target rifles like the Musgrave RSA single shots and no body seem to complain.
    <span class='smallblacktext'>[ Edited ]</span>

  2. #2
    Marksman
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    most target handguns actually have double stage triggers...except free pistols but they are a breed apart.

    nothing wrong with single stage triggers...they are just more difficult to control and are not as safe as double stage.

  3. #3
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    the way i see it, with a 2 stage, by the time u r at the end of 1st stage, finger already on trigger blade with pressure ready for the squeeze. whereas with the single stage........it all starts from the time ur finger touch the blade.

  4. #4
    Marksman
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    exactly Urabus...

  5. #5
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    Still don't get it. Really, so what is wrong with putting the finger on the trigger, squeeze it, applying more and more pressure until the sear lets go in a single stage?

    Isn't shorter trigger travel = less effort to keep the gun steady?

    Or maybe I just spent too much time with reveolvers and single action pistols (actually self loading pistols triggers are closer than flake 2 stage because the trigger has to return past the disconnector first but that's besides the point).


  6. #6
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    there's nothing wrong with it...........much has to do with personal preferences.

  7. #7
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    I adjusted and elliminated the first stage in my rifles trigger pull and i am very happy with that,as urubas said it boils down to personal prefs,for myself I like to align on the target and then without aiming to hard pull the trigeer back as far as possible without letting the shot go off and then only do I start to really concentrate on the final bit of pressure to hit the target.It works for me.

  8. #8
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    One of the simple explanations from a google search:

    www.airgunsonly.com/tech/TWO-STAGE.htm

    Basically you want to know exactly when the trigger is going to break and you can only do this with the lightest possible final stage. As an example, with 10m target pistol the rules states a minimum [total] trigger weight of 500g and even this is too much, so it's split out over two stages, with 50m free pistol there is no restriction so you only need one stage, because you can make it as light as you need it...
    So in general it seems that, where safety or rules dictate a certain minimum trigger pull this can be spread over two stages so as to have the lightest possible final release weight.

  9. #9
    Sharp Shooter
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    A point to consider in respect of spring rifles is the sheer amount of force the trigger has to hold. A centrefire rifle trigger only holds a striker spring under compression so a simple safe and reliable single stage trigger mechanism is easily designed.

    The force of the mainspring on even a low powered spring airgun is vastly greater and the simple single stage triggers that you find on some guns reflect this with a heavy and creepy trigger pull to ensure safe operation. Trying to adjust a single stage mechanism to give a crisp pull under these circumstances can accelerate wear on the mechansim.

    The 'true two stage trigger' e.g Weihrauch Rekord, Air Arms CD etc feature a high degree of sear engagement giving maximum safety when cocked. The fact that operating the first stage alters this sear engagement down to a 'knife edge', that can return to full if the shot is not taken reduces stress and wear on the mechanism, while providing a clean crisp release.

    Altohugh the stresses are far lower in PCP rifles, the same principles of wear still apply. For instance my Shamal that I have owned for 17 years was fitted with an Olympic trigger (true two stage) from the 100 series in the early 1990's - this trigger unit is still operating perfectly with no signs of wear and is as good as any newer match trigger. My Daystate Huntsman on the other hand was made at the same time as the Shamal but features a 'fake two stage' trigger - i.e single stage with sprung trigger blade to simulate first stage. When I first got the rifle I noticed it was having problems cocking and traced this to wear on the sear engagement surfaces. Having replaced the sears it is now working fine, but is not as good as the Olympic mechanism.

    Dale

  10. #10
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    Correct me if I'm wrong, but this means the Steyr has a 'fake two stage' trigger as well then. I've had a look at mine and there is no sear movement when activating the first stage. Only during the second stage when the sear finally breaks loose.

  11. #11
    Sharp Shooter
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    Dieter, quite correct, most of the converted 10m guns have fake two stage triggers. The older Anschutz had true two stage units.

    Probably it would be down to the case of the loading at the 6Ft.lbs output for 10m work such a design is fine, time will tell how it copes with the higher loads imposed by higer power settings.

    Dale
    <span class='smallblacktext'>[ Edited Wed Apr 12 2006, 09:08AM ]</span>

  12. #12
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    Do you get wear and tear on the sears after a while?
    I assume they are made of some tempered alloy, but ho long will they last before needing replacement?

  13. #13
    Sharp Shooter
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    The sears will be made of some form of hardened steel. Wear is inevitable no matter how good the material. It just depends on how long it takes for said wear to start affecting the performance.

    Remember on the fake two-stage units sear engagement is literally a knife edge so all the load is being imposed on a small area as opposed to the large area over which the load is spread on a true two stage unit.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dale
    Remember on the fake two-stage units sear engagement is literally a knife edge so all the load is being imposed on a small area as opposed to the large area over which the load is spread on a true two stage unit.
    Which translates to more wear and tear then.
    What's the first sign that your sears need replacement?

  15. #15
    Sharp Shooter
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    On the Daystate the first sign was that the rifle wouldn't cock reliably on the existing sear engagement, then after adjusting the wear progresses until you reach a point where there is so much sear engagement the trigger pull is nowhere near crisp.

    It takes a while for this to happen, but it is something to keep in mind for the future.

    BTW - this is something for BAM owners to bear in mind as they have a direct copy of the Daystate trigger, but the quality of the steel / hardening is uncertain?


    <span class='smallblacktext'>[ Edited Wed Apr 12 2006, 09:44AM ]</span>

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