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Thread: Field Target RULES IN SA

  1. #1
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    Default Field Target RULES IN SA

    Regarding the power restrictions implemented by ft rules in the UK.... (Correct me if I'm wrong)
    Air rifles that are high power require a licence and are not permitted to shoot at competitions....
    What is the exact reasoning behind this?

    Now, my question.... Why in SA, where we do not require a licence, are we not aloud to participate in Ft competitions with the HP rifles??????

    Can we not make minor changes to Ft rules seeing that our country is vastly different in terms of regulations?

  2. #2
    Sharp Shooter
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    The simplest reason that FAC rated air rifles are not allowed for general competition use in the UK is insurance. The insurance policy offered by the BFTA only covers sub 12Ft.lb rifles.

    There is also an issue of proving the suitability of land for use of firearms, unless each individual holds what is termed an open condition on their licence. Generally the holder of the FAC is restricted to using their guns on specified land over which they have lawful authority to shoot or on approved ranges - i.e. licensed by the military (MOD). The majority of FT clubs are not approved ranges, just convenient pieces of land that the club has arranged the use of.

    On top of this there is also the damge to the targets to consider. Ordinary 12Ft.lb rifles will cause a lot of damage to knockdown targets over time, but the high power guns really beat the s**t out of the targets quite quickly and given the cost of targets (About ?25 per target) clubs do like to make them last as long as possible.

    Then you may wish to consider the issue of a level playing field for competitors high power with a flatter trajectory can be an advantage particularly if other shooters around you are using lower power guns.

    Dale

  3. #3
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    here's my 2c worth........

    with HP air rifles........it actually takes away some of the fun/challenge re hold over/under and wind compensations.

    if HP versions are allowed, at what ftlbs should the new limit be? 18? 24? 30?

    rest of the world shoots FT @12 ftlbs (except US, i think it's 18ftlbs), if ZA wants to recognized/compete internationally....surely it makes sense to have the restrictions.

    it's up to the shooter really..............perhaps at the club level, allowances can be made for individuals with HP air rifles???? obviously the scores are not kept/recorded for provincial/national colours/selection pourposes........and perhaps a higher "green fee" re target damage.

    anyone else?

  4. #4
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    ?The simplest reason that FAC rated air rifles are not allowed for general competition use in the UK is insurance. The insurance policy offered by the BFTA only covers sub 12Ft.lb rifles. ?


    OK, but we don't have insurance in SA for air rifles yet... Neither do we have restrictions on where we fire these guns as long as we have permission from the landowners, hence, it would be up to the clubs and saftaa to approve or disapprove HP air rifles, yes/no???

    As for levelling the playing field with others I believe that regardless for the so-called "flatter trajectory" the POI still has to be calculated in the same fashion.
    I.e.: a slandered powered air rifles pellet (7.2g) will drop roughly 7in?s.. The Hp rifles using a (10.5g) pellet will drop 6in?s, not really an advantage there.

    As for damaging the targets, I believe that would be at the clubs discretion, seeing that most of our targets are made from 3mm steal plate (.22 rated) not much damage would transpire, other than the paint needing to be touched up every now and then?

  5. #5
    Marksman
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    When the UK guys compete in the US they often kick a$$...
    The 18 to 20ft\lbs rifles do have an advantage in the wind.
    AS far as trajectories are concerned they are fairly similar since they shoot heavier pellets at between 820 and 920fps.
    They are also more difficult to shoot accurately , more muzzle flip...hence all the muzzle flip compensators and other attachements.
    I think we should stick to 12ft\lbs for most purposes...except maybe at the informal level as long as targets are not getting damaged.

  6. #6
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    If and Hp air rifles are so different, surely that in its own constitutes fairness in a Ft competition, same goes for scopes, better scopes can range targets more accurately than cheaper ones, thus giving whom ever has the larger bank balance an advantage out in the field, and if the same applies for power restrictions in rifles than the same should apply in scopes so why not standardize scopes in FT seeing that the rifles are???

  7. #7
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    I cannot comment on this today, very busy at this stage, will do so either tonight or tomorrow.
    Refresh, sorry bud, it will not be what u want to hear.

  8. #8
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    Urabus, you right on the money, thats all i'm asking for, make an exception for local competitions, many people have gone and bought the Hp's because they can... Would be a waist not to let them shoot, as for international competitions, yeah, then follow the rules, FT is to new in the country to be this strick on rules, don't you think? Are there not diff competitions for a springer and pcp? why not have an open class shoot, anything goes?

  9. #9
    Sharp Shooter
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    "As for damaging the targets, I believe that would be at the clubs discretion, seeing that most of our targets are made from 3mm steal plate (.22 rated) not much damage would transpire, other than the paint needing to be touched up every now and then…"

    When I mean damage to the target you really haven't seen the effect of repeated shots on 3mm steel - the face plates bend, hinge mechanisms deform and on targets fitted with reducing rings on the kill zones, I have seen quite a few at my club which we needed to welded up because repeated shots have actually penetrated the steel - this is using 12Ft.lb guns. Repainting is normal wear and tear. I have been shooting FT for over 15 years so I do have a pretty good idea of the lifespan of targets.

    From the insurance perspective, what happens if someone has an accident and somebody, whether a competitor or a third party gets injured as a result - who carries the liability?

    While the UK is no where near as litigious as the USA, as a club official it is always nice to have that warm feeling in the seat of your pants that says your ass is covered

    Dale

    <span class='smallblacktext'>[ Edited Thu Jan 27 2005, 02:40PM ]</span>

  10. #10
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    From the insurance perspective, what happens if someone has an accident and somebody, whether a competitor or a third party gets injured as a result - who carries the liability?


    Good question...
    I know that model air planes are not to be flown with out SAMAA (South African Model Aircraft Ass), they carry the liability when it comes to accidents.. You pay an annual fee and abide by their rules, which in turn covers you for such misshaps.

    I don't know if SAFTAA will go the same route, Havn't heard anything yet...

  11. #11
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    they could always make each person join the south african gunowners assoc(saga) once youre a member you are covered.R70 a year or R1500 lifetime membership gives you R1,000,000 Public Liability Insurance Cover

  12. #12
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    Refresh,
    You have a hunting rifle that can be used for FT also,like my AA400 etc. . A FT rifle is quite another kettle of fish and it shoots 12ft/lb only. Look at the EV ,Steyer and others, all at 12ft/lb. only. Have the power turned down to 800ft/sec and you are in the money for hunting AND FT. My rifle shoots at only 780 ft/sec and you saw me bring down pigeons at 50meter and more, so does Marguitte.

  13. #13
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    Yeah, but thats not the point, I bought the rifle because it was the Hp, I want to know why I'm not aloud to use it in Ft. I can understand the reasoning behind the UK based restrictions (insurance) but why here in SA? Guess I'm just ganna have to stick to fun shoots and hunting...

  14. #14
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    Re: Cover.
    R1 Million? That's a bit low innit?
    Think I'm gonna have a chat with my insurance people tomorrow - got a 3'rd party cover for my land. If I get any sense I'll follow up on here.

    HP and FT:
    I can understand the posts aligning with the UK FT's rules. Although I saw a post mentioning that the US have another power limit maximum. It seems that there isn't world standard?

    On the other hand I can also appreciate Refresh's postion, and all the other people that bought the HP rifles like hotcakes.
    He does have an argument though, I mean people buy Porches to drive at 200 odd km/h and to pull chicks (!), not to detune them to drive around at 60 km/h.


    Would just like to add that it would decrease the already relatively small FT following in SA should HP not be allowed at some level, be it club and fun shoots only. Also the suggested 'Open Class' does have some merits to warrant a look into.

    Just me thoughts.

    ...

  15. #15
    Sharp Shooter

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    I fully understand the HP people's concerns. Just another negative: when setting up a range targets at longer distances must be set "soft" so that low power rifles can also knock them down. If you hit those targets (any place on the steel) with a HP rifle they will fall. So it makes it very difficult to set up the range. You are however welcome to shoot HP's on Leeuwkop sighting range

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