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Thread: Shot to shot consistency PCPs

  1. #1
    Marksman
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    Default Shot to shot consistency PCPs

    Below is a series of 90 shots out of an AA S400 using JSB Exact 4.52 pellets lubed with FP10.
    Gun was filled to 190bar and it pinged at 110 bar after 90 shots.
    The power curve shows me that ideally this rifle should be filled to 185bars and used up to 100bar.
    Consistency is awesome for an unregulated rifle...this raises the question of whether the extra expense and complication of a regulator is justified.
    The velocity variations below will not affect accuracy out to 50yds.
    This rifle seems to be capable of a good 90 very consistent shots...

    1 784 784 795 795 792 798 800 798 796
    2 784 787 792 795 793 796 800 796 795
    3 786 787 794 785 795 797 798 801 796
    4 785 793 795 796 797 796 798 798 795
    5 787 793 789 792 794 801 800 797 794
    6 781 784 794 795 793 798 798 799 791
    7 788 791 795 797 792 799 797 796 793
    8 785 794 795 795 794 795 798 798 792
    9 786 791 791 793 799 797 800 795 795
    10 786 791 794 789 791 794 798 797 794

  2. #2
    Sharp Shooter
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    Hi Guido,

    After our e-mail discussion about rifle consistency back in early May you queried why I preferred a modified S400 over the Steyr LG100FT.

    Now I think you have the answer, at 12 ft.lbs my Steyr gave less shots from a higher fill pressure with a consistency that was no better than you have recorded with a relatively unmodified rifle (other than the stock).

    With the longer cylinder of the Xtra-FAC model fitted I get well over 120 shots if I fill to 190Bar.

    Your old NJR100 would give you about 140 shots at 12ft.lbs with a regulator. Take that reg out of the rifle and you would barely get 50 really good shots from it. Just goes to show how far the knock open valve has been developed in the last 10 years.

    Dale

  3. #3
    Marksman
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    mmm...yes but...
    The consistency of the S400 is an ES of 20fps whereas the Steyr gives me 8fps ...but as we agree it is purely academic when it comes to the accuracy department.
    I prefer the Steyr for the following reasons...
    The Steyr has an amazing firing cycle...
    It feels as if nothing is happening..it is completely still upon firing due to the stabilizer..
    The trigger is superb, infinitely adjustable on all its axes.
    The grip is infinitely adjustable as is the stock , cheeckpiece, butt hook..etc.
    It has an accessory rail under the fore-end which is itself attached to an acccessory rail under the rifle's action.
    It looks awesome whereas the s400 looks pretty bland but that is just a question of personal taste.
    The power can be adjusted in about 20 seconds from 5ft\lbs to 12ft\lbs and by simply slipping on the bloop-tube and sights you have a world class 10M rifle all in the space of about 2 minutes.
    The rifle comes apart and fits into a small briefcase.
    The Steyr will NOT rust.
    The scope rail reaches further forward than the S400.
    It has a multitude of options for adding weights to different parts of the rifle.
    I could go on but I really cannot see any advantage in using an S400 over a Steyr except the difference in price....although once the S400 is modified to get it close to the Steyr the price difference decreases.

    Advantage of the S400....extra shots per fill

    Regards

  4. #4
    Inactive Member

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    Ahah,
    Guido, glad to see that you now "agree" with myself and Dale on the unregulated guns consistency issue.
    It really is quite amazing on how consistent these PCP's are.
    You recorded a ES of 20 ft for 90shots in a Standard S400 Classic.
    The following is a Pro Target review on www.airguns.net "I set my chronograph up 10 feet from the Pro-Target's muzzle and shot a 30 shot string. The 10.5 grain Crosman Premiers' had an extreme spread, of 14 feet per-second. This may seem like a large spread for a regulated gun; but, When I clocked Bob Peiser's FWB P70 at the same distance the extreme spread was 18 feet per-second for a 25 shot string", note that both these guns are regulated !!!!!!

    Seems you will never change the Steyr opinion now will you ! And how much is that Steyr in full FT kit form .... ?

    Value for money, S400 is hard to beat ...
    <span class='smallblacktext'>[ Edited Mon Aug 16 2004, 11:03AM ]</span>

  5. #5
    Marksman
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    My Steyr cost me R8000...dont ask!!!
    We can land them here at about R12500 for the 10M version which includes full target sights, bloop tube etc.
    The FT version is about the same so the 10M version is far better value for money.
    2 minute job to convert the 10m version to 12ft\lbs.
    I don't see what you would need extra to convert to FT guise...except maybe a higher fore-end insert..easy to make.
    Why anyone would spend R19500 on a Daystate MK3 beats the hell out of me.

  6. #6
    Sharp Shooter
    The Professor

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    Hi Guido, Neil,

    In respect of the Steyr in its FT guise you really don't get anything with the rifle, not even a deeper fore-end. In the UK the LG100FT retails at about ?995 (R11343 assuming R11.4 to the pound, not including SA import tax). That is a lot of money for a rifle which still needs add on parts to make it more FT friendly.

    The S400 can be bought for about ?300, the action modifications I made to mine come to about ?150 on top of that price. The real beauty of the S400 for FT use is you can buy the basic rifle then add to it in stages. The likes of a Steyr requires full cash outlay at the outset.

    I don't shoot 10m type disciplines so I am in no position to comment on the suitability of rifles for that sport. I have however shot FT for 15 years and have a pretty good idea of what works well. My major concern with a lot of the modified 10m rifles is their durability under field conditions. Most if not all of the 10m derivatives are being customised to make them into FT rifles.

    For me one of the beauties of using the S400 derived FT rifle is simplicity - there is very little to go wrong at an awkward moment and they are pretty resilient to the elements in that it is harder for water or dirt to get into the workings. The other thing that swung it for me to move in favour of the S400 over the LG100 that I owned, was that the S400 was more consistently accurate at FT ranges.

    But at the end of the day each person has their own preferences for equipment and it would be a dull world if we all used the same kit.

    Regards

    Dale

  7. #7
    Inactive Member

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dale
    In the UK the LG100FT retails at about ?995 (R11343 assuming R11.4 to the pound, not including SA import tax).
    that's not forget the "profit-margin" on top of that......... ~

    Quote Originally Posted by Dale
    But at the end of the day each person has their own preferences for equipment and it would be a dull world if we all used the same kit.
    well said


  8. #8
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    K, let's look at prices (again)
    Daystate - ?890 / R 19500, EV2 - ?995 / R 19500, LG100 - ?995 /+-R12500
    How the hell is that possible ?
    Also remember that the importers DON'T PAY retail prices, they pay much less !! I personally believe that the EV2 goes for about ?650-700 to Dealers in UK/Importers for other countries without Sales Tax as it's being exported.

    As Dale said, what you choose is really personal choice. Some like wood others like metals, some like simple and some want fully adjustable, then there's weight.
    Buying the "best" gun won't make you a better shot. It will either work for you or it won't ! If you aren't comfortable with a EV2 then you will never be, same goes for all the other guns aswell.
    My personal recommendation to people is to get a std gun and consider getting a more FT friendly Stock ! PCP's are (most of them) very accurate and consistent but there's a big difference between a Hunter and a FT Stock.

    The "FT" stocks should have atleast an adjustable rubber buttplate and a adjustable cheekpiece, nice to have would include a Target/Pistol/Thumbhole Grip and a adjustable kneerest. A adjustable FT stock can be set up to suit YOU, where a Std Hunter Stock CAN'T without customization. FT stocks are normally quite heavy aswell, by using weights you can change the balance and weight to suit you.

    Example of FT kit
    Std S400 Classic - R 6 000
    High Power Cylinder - R 900
    BRAND NEW Adjustable Custom FT Stock - R 2000 - 2500
    (** you can sell your std cylinder and old stock 2 recover money)
    ** You don't need the High Power Cylinder, but it will give you even more consistent shots.
    Total : R 8900 - 9400

    Comments ?

  9. #9
    Sharp Shooter

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    If anybody want a FT stock feel free to contact me. I made a few from Rosewood and they work well for me and the other people. Before you have a stock made by a gunsmith make SURE what exactly it is that you require!!! Nothing ruins a nice stock as adding more wood later on. Lewis

  10. #10
    Inactive Member

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    Lewis,
    How much to copy my NJR100 stock but with inlays for the S400 ? (Has adjustable knee and cheekpiece)

  11. #11
    Marksman
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    Hey Neil...is that stock for me hehehe
    Lewis..any chance of sending some pics of your work?
    Cheers
    Guido gdg@iafrica.com

  12. #12
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    Hey Guido ... funny ...
    I plan on customizing S400's and selling them (only on special order)
    Ideal would be a S400 Classic action, High Power Cylinder, NJR stock and barrel weight
    or
    Ideal would be a S400 Carbine action, Classic Cylinder, NJR stock and barrel weight

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