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Thread: Help needed/POi shifts.

  1. #1
    Sharp Shooter

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    Default Help needed/POi shifts.

    This saturday was very embarrasing to me. My .20 rifle together with the Leapers 8-32X56 mounted on it costed me much more than R10000.00. I've shot with it 3 weeks ago, untill this Saturday. It was on a smallholding that belongs to a friend of mine. Well to make the story short. There was a rock pigeon sitting 35 meters from us. He told me the first shot is mine as he has invited me. Well, the shot was miss, far enough miss that the pigeon did not even flew away. He took a shot, with a Gamo Hunter 440 with iron sights, and shooting with Marksman pellets, it dropped like rock.

    Well what could I do? We then put up a target for me to re-zero my gun. I sight it in on the first dot just below the centre crosshair at ten metres, that way it is spot-on at 20 metres. Well all five shots went into one hole as ussual but 10 millimetres too high and 9 millimetres to the right. Just think by how far I've missed that pigeon!

    Why does that happen? I know my shooting is not at fault. My gun was spot on before I've put it in my safe. I dont think it is my gun as it still shoots groups like usuall. I did some research on the net and the conclusion was given to me in one nutshell by a instructer of American Army Snipers. He said that people buy R30000.00 rifles and then put a R2000.00 scope on it. I am not going to say this scope is crap. All my previous scopes, Tasco, Nikko Stirling, Whalter, and BSA that I've previously owned, I'm shooting from 1981 so I've owned a lot of scopes, did this to some extend. You must constantly re-zero the scopes, HWY?

    What Kind of scope will not do this. What might I be doing wrong? That instructer said the cheapest scope that he will put on a rifle is a Leupold. Is this the way to go, or can anybody give me any advice? I dont need such a big scope but only bought it because of all the good reviews I've read about it. Now I dont know anymore.
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  2. #2
    Sharp Shooter
    SAFTAA FT Colours '10

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    Hi Ettienne, I am no pro but I think your scope is fine. Maybe it just got a bump and moved on the rail. Nothing to worry about. Always a good idea to check you are stil zero'ed before aiming at quary or target. Or maybe your barrel got a knock if it is floating it may have re aligned itself in a slightly different direction.
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  3. #3
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    Hi Ettienne, Leupold in this country will cost you more than the rifle, and there are many people using Leapers scopes for FT competition who do not have that problem.
    How do you transport the rifle when you travel?
    Are you changing the magnification at the different distances?
    What kind of mounts are you using?
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  4. #4
    Sharp Shooter

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    I'm very sure that I've not knocked the rifle or bent the barrel. Like I've said this happens a lot to me. This is not the first time that I get poi shifts and it is not limmited to this scope or rifle combination. Ussually I do re-check the zero before a hunt but it was put in a safe, in a proper gunbag I've had specially made for it, 150cm long so I dont even have to remove the silencer in order to put it in the gunbag. I get the same problem with my .22 as well, I'm however shooting a lot less with it and dont mind to re-zero it but I always needs adjustments. The Tasco was the worst in this regard of all the scopes I've owned.

    As I'm only using it for target practice and hunting I dont use the magnification knob at all, only in the beginning to check it functions. It is a wonderfull scope for range finding i'm sure but just like all my other scopes, it does not hold zero. Ive got Lynx mounts on it. Medium hight, it barely fits but it does.
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  5. #5
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    What weather condition are you using your rifles. That has a lot of influence on PCP.
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  6. #6
    Sharp Shooter

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    The weather was normal, sunsine etc. It was about 17h00 in the afternoon. It was raining hard the previous night so it might have been a bit moist. I've heard temperatures do make a difference but such a big one, and that over just ten metres?
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  7. #7
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    Yes Sir, It has. You said it rained the previous night and the condition was MOIST and WET + SUNikko StirlingINE and that will change the HUMIDITY. The air pressure make PCP to shoot high or low.

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  8. #8
    Marksman
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    Ettienne I am a little confused by the above postings.

    Are you getting POI shifts with only one rifle and only the Leapers?
    Or with all your rifles and all your scopes?

    something sounds very strange....I have never had such recurring and wide ranging POI problems..
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  9. #9
    Sharp Shooter
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    starting to see parallax problems maybe
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  10. #10
    Sharp Shooter

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    No Guido. I started shooting with a BSA Meteor years ago and since I added a Tasco scope my problems started. I started wounding etc. When I grew older and got my own money I bought other rifles and scopes and later upgraded to a pcp just to be able to scope it. I was told by a person working in a gunshop that you dont scope an airrifle, no scope can hold up to its recoil. That convinced me to try a PCP. I did not want to argue with a person that had more experience with it. I was told even a cheap scope would be good enough as there is no recoil. No rifle I've owned with whatever scope could hold its zero. I've owned previously a CZ200S, a QB79, a HW100 and now this gun. Not one of them could hold zero. I dont think its parallax problems at all because how else can 1-hole groups at 25 metres be explained.? If parallax is a problem then I should not be able to shoot groups. Humidity?, yes I can agree that it affects a pcp horisontally but why vertically as well? According to all my experience the scopes I've used must be the problem. I've hoped in the beginning its is the hard recoilling springers fault but after experiencing the same with pcp's It must be the scopes. I've also tried geniune air rifle scopes that cant even be parallax correctted and still the problem persisted. I know many people are happy with theirs but I feel that I need something else. Something that is proven. Like a Leupold. I think I must Buy a 6.5-20X40EFR. If even that scope is giving me problems I will sell all and take up reading. I've spend so much on scopes and bought so many different brands that I really feel like its not worth it anymore. I've never heard of such a problem with Leupold scopes on forums on the net but with all other brands you get a lot of complaints and of course to be fair lots of good reviews as well. Its just the scope is so expensive, it costs more than my allready expensive .20. Thats why I've posted this problem, to be sure I'm not wasting my money anymore.
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  11. #11
    Marksman
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    I think the problem lies elsewhere...

    I have owned hundreds of scopes of all makes and sizes and hundered of airguns...I have never encountered such an extensive problem like you have.

    If you read any of the overseas forums as well these problems are very rare...so buying a Leupold is NOT going to solve your issues...something else is amiss!
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  12. #12
    Sharp Shooter

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    That is what I hope for but what? I really want this to work.
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  13. #13
    Marksman
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    no offence meant but considering that you are having POI issues with all your scopes and all your rifles including a rimfire I can only suspect some strange shooter error or anomaly...it really does sound strange..

    have you asked someone else to shoot your rifles?
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  14. #14
    Sharp Shooter
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    [blockquote]I have owned hundreds of scopes of all makes and sizes and hundered of airguns...I have never encountered such an extensive problem like you have[/blockquote]

    he is not joking

    Anyways..where do you stay Ettiene? I am sure there will be some shooters closeby that will be willing to take a few shots with your rifle. Myself and Guido are down in CPT. I am sure we can have a shoot with your rifle and see if we can isolate the problem. I aggree with Guido though. You may have a problem with a scope, but to repeatedly have the problem with different scopes and different rifles seems almost impossible. And btw.. that store owner does not know what he is talking about. There are scopes that works just fine on springers.. Many of us shoot hft and ft with springers and rely heavily on the fact that out poi wont change shot to shot. Also the rifles you mentioned (bar the qb - even though I love mine) are one hole groupers that wont change poi on a wim. I am also not suggesting you are "bending"
    your barrel but I believe a knock to the barrek can shift it in the breech. You yourself know how little movement there will translate into a poi change 30m down the range. If your rifle has a barrel band you may try removing that we well making it a floating barrel. Bear in mind though that it will shift easier now should it get a bang on the barrel. Maybe as Quido is saying, the temperature changes or even different presure in the tube is moving your barrel a little bit.

    Cheers
    JT
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  15. #15
    Sharp Shooter

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    Hi Ettiene, could it be that you have a slightly different spotweld at different shooting sessions? Its easy to keep the same spot during a single session, but you could be moving slightly between sessions, causing a poi shift, but keeping the groups tight. Just a thought. Maybe try putting some tape on the stock to mark your cheek position.
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