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Thread: T06 trigger (or maybe any other trigger as well?) ?

  1. #1
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    Default T06 trigger (or maybe any other trigger as well?) ?

    Hello, I have a T06 trigger in my 350 Magnum. I set it to very long super smooth first stage and a crisp, very light, non-creep release.
    When I pull through the second stage and don't fire the rifle, but just let go the trigger blade, it does not return to the beggining of the first stage, but it's just soft, with no resistance and it flops around....
    Why is that?
    can somebody explain why is this happening?

    Thank you, Vito
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  2. #2
    Rest In Peace Vincent

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    It does not have a genuine first stage.
    The sears have moved but will not return unless you re-cock the rifle to reset them.
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  3. #3
    Sharp Shooter
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    It could be as Vince has said, but in my experience a 'true' two stage trigger can, if set too fine on the second stage point, or if the overall release weight is set too low give this sort of condition. In essence the sears are now 'locked' at the release point and the trigger blade flops around as there is no pressure from the sear spring pushing against it. I have experienced the same with the Rekord, the TX200 trigger and even the Venom Mach1 trigger if set too light.

    Try increasing the second stage fractionally and upping the trigger weight and see if this cures it.

    I believe the TO6 should be a true two-stage trigger and when correctly set should return to full sear engagement when the trigger is released.

    Useful information here: http://www.airguntech.com/?p=304
    Last edited by Dale; 30-10-14 at 18:09.
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  4. #4
    Prof. Jan Itor

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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by mze View Post
    It does not have a genuine first stage.
    The sears have moved but will not return unless you re-cock the rifle to reset them.
    Thanks for your opinion.

    Best, Vito
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dale View Post
    It could be as Vince has said, but in my experience a 'true' two stage trigger can, if set too fine on the second stage point, or if the overall release weight is set too low give this sort of condition. In essence the sears are now 'locked' at the release point and the trigger blade flops around as there is no pressure from the sear spring pushing against it. I have experienced the same with the Rekord, the TX200 trigger and even the Venom Mach1 trigger if set too light.

    Try increasing the second stage fractionally and upping the trigger weight and see if this cures it.

    Thanks Dale for that constructive input.

    I believe the TO6 should be a true two-stage trigger and when correctly set should return to full sear engagement when the trigger is released.

    Useful information here: http://www.airguntech.com/?p=304
    Yes, the T06 is a ''true'' two stage trigger and it is also ''genuine'' (if it would not be genuine, the Rekord also isn't genuine, but you said it yourself that this happened even with ''high end'' triggers).
    Yes, that could be the case...too low pull weight, will try that tommorow and inform you about the results.
    The only thing that bothers me is that I do not want to change second stage. I set it exactly the way I want it (absolutely 100% creep free and relatively light). I will only try to change the weight pull and see what happens.

    Another thing: is it actually necessary to make those changes? I mean; does that kind of trigger behaviour (sears not springing back) harms the trigger mechanism in any way?

    Best, Vito
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  7. #7
    Sharp Shooter

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    Firstly .... I have absolutely no idea as to your problem because I have never seen one of those triggers .........


    BUT


    I have experienced something similar on my Dawson (Theoben) ........


    I like my triggers set as follows .......

    Very short first stage ......
    Positive stop at start of second stage ....
    Very light let-off ......
    Zero second stage travel ...... i.e. after first stage it "stops" and then with any movement it release .....


    I had my trigger set like this and it was perfect ...... at +/- 35 ftlbs (read heavy load on hammer spring when fully cocked)

    I then started playing around with different barrels etc and adjusted the power all they way down to maybe 12 ftlbs ........

    All of a sudden my "match" trigger setup was rubbish .....


    Fist stage OK ....
    Stop OK .....
    Extremely light when going to second stage .......
    On full travel (very little "over travel) the sears still did not dis-engage .....
    Fiddling the trigger and of she went ......


    So, triggers can be finicky things when set very light ...........


    Upped the power and all was back to perfect ..... else I would have had to do some adjusting of the trigger ......
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  8. #8
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    Wannebe, thanks
    One more thing...why everybody wants the shortest first stage possible?
    I don't get it, someone please explain?
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  9. #9
    Sharp Shooter

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vito View Post
    Wannebe, thanks
    One more thing...why everybody wants the shortest first stage possible?
    I don't get it, someone please explain?
    A lot to do with personal preference ...... (and safety ....) .......

    BUT


    I've always like my triggers like that on all my rifles .... competition and field. I believe in one trigger setting for everything as trigger technique play such a big role in accurate shooting ...

    So, my 30-06 / 308 etc and my HW75 / Theobens / SR etc have the "same" feel ..... just a bit heavier on the power burners ....
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  10. #10
    Sharp Shooter

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wannebe View Post
    ... I believe in one trigger setting for everything as trigger technique play such a big role in accurate shooting ...

    ...
    Good advice that. Ta!
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  11. #11
    Sharp Shooter
    The Professor

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vito View Post
    The only thing that bothers me is that I do not want to change second stage. I set it exactly the way I want it (absolutely 100% creep free and relatively light). I will only try to change the weight pull and see what happens.

    Another thing: is it actually necessary to make those changes? I mean; does that kind of trigger behaviour (sears not springing back) harms the trigger mechanism in any way?

    Best, Vito
    When I said increase the second stage, I mean literally a fractional increase, probably 1/8 to 1/4 of a turn on the adjuster to give a tiny bit more engagement when the 2nd stage srew intercepts the sear. To you as a shooter the level of increase I mean, you will not detect the difference but the trigger will likely behave better.

    IMO - yes it is necessary to make those changes.

    Why?

    Well the trigger is designed as a two stage trigger - i.e. large sear engagement when the trigger is cocked. One of the benefits of this is should you not take the shot, the sears return to their full engagement position giving maximum safety. Perhaps less critical for target work, but for field shooting against live quarry having a trigger stuck on the edged is not something I would like as you are now in a situation where a bump on the gun can fire it.

    I don't know if leaving it will cause harm to the trigger, but the simple fact is at your current adjustment level it isn't working in the way it is designed to. You need to bear in mind that while the T06 is a very good trigger it isn't a match trigger and should not be expected to behave like one.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Vito View Post
    One more thing...why everybody wants the shortest first stage possible?
    I don't get it, someone please explain?
    Personal preferences - not everyone likes a lot of first stage movement.
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  12. #12
    Sharp Shooter

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dale View Post
    When I said increase the second stage, I mean literally a fractional increase, probably 1/8 to 1/4 of a turn on the adjuster to give a tiny bit more engagement when the 2nd stage srew intercepts the sear. To you as a shooter the level of increase I mean, you will not detect the difference but the trigger will likely behave better.

    IMO - yes it is necessary to make those changes.

    Why?

    Well the trigger is designed as a two stage trigger - i.e. large sear engagement when the trigger is cocked. One of the benefits of this is should you not take the shot, the sears return to their full engagement position giving maximum safety. Perhaps less critical for target work, but for field shooting against live quarry having a trigger stuck on the edged is not something I would like as you are now in a situation where a bump on the gun can fire it.

    I don't know if leaving it will cause harm to the trigger, but the simple fact is at your current adjustment level it isn't working in the way it is designed to. You need to bear in mind that while the T06 is a very good trigger it isn't a match trigger and should not be expected to behave like one.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Personal preferences - not everyone likes a lot of first stage movement.

    100% .... even with a short (relatively speaking ... I've not measured it) first stage, the triger should always be set so that if the shot is not taken then the sears must return to orriginal position ..... absolutely critical for safety ....

    I think most AD's occur because people fiddle with triggers and they do not know what they are actually doing.

    Safety must always be first priority ......

    Test:

    With empty chamber ... cock the rifle .... pull the trigger up to end of first stage ...... release the trigger ..... "bump" the rifle on the bud and it should never discharge ....
    Last edited by Wannebe; 31-10-14 at 10:52.
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  13. #13
    Sharp Shooter

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    .... another test I like to do .....

    Cock the rifle (chamber empty) ...... now pull the trigger repeatably up to the stop at the end of the first stage and release it ..... the feel must remain the same and the stop should also remain there ...

    If not and you get a "surprise" firing of the rifle .... trigger need adjustment ......
    Last edited by Wannebe; 31-10-14 at 11:00.
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  14. #14
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    To clear up some of the confusion here:

    Non adjustable triggers: cannot be adjusted and are essentially all creep until bang (found in the Chinese B1, B2 etc)

    1st stage adjustable: only sear engagement can be adjusted (found in some old BSA's etc)

    Hair Trigger: a 1st or 2nd stage adjustable trigger set to only allow the sears to engage enough that any moment of the trigger blade will discharge the weapon. these are very unsafe as they are often set so light that they spontaneously discharge during operation however they provide very little opportunity for trigger control errors. (found under holes in tin roofs)

    2nd stage adjustable: any trigger that moves the sears as the trigger blade moves and has the option of setting an additional contact point giving the shooter an indication that the sears are now about to disengage. This description is not dependent on the sears ability to reset however it is important to note that after the 1st stage take-up a trigger that doesn't reset the sears is essentially in a hair trigger condition. These triggers provide all the operational safety of a 1st stage trigger with all the control of a hair trigger and as such are very popular with competitive shooters. found in most competition grade weapons.

    Faux 2 stage: essentially a 1st stage trigger masquerading as a 2 stage trigger where the sear engagement can be set however the trigger blade can move through a portion of its travel without engaging the sears. this feels like a 2 stage but provides none of the safety of operation as the sears are often set to hair trigger tolerances. (Found in the Gamo SAT trigger etc)
    Last edited by Paris; 31-10-14 at 11:20.
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  15. #15
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    I like that.."trigger control errors".
    Much more true to the subject at hand than "accidental discharge"
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