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Thread: few thoughts from recent DBN trip................

  1. #1
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    Default few thoughts from recent DBN trip................

    the MKIII, wow it's nice. everything from the feel of that walnut thumbhole, the balance, finish/quality..............truly amazing. afaik, you can even get a fancier model...........eeish, if only i have 30k to play with.

    saw the much debated BAM XS-50/51 (chinese huntsman copy). imho, it's a bit rough, and visibly the workmanship/materials used is of an inferior quality. i suppose it's a nice project rifle................then again, cheap parts and 200 bars inches away from my face, no thanks. and it's not that cheap (3-3.5K).

    AA S410E is a monster.......one hole groups easily done @45m, near flat trajectory out to 50+m, more ftlbs at 50m than uk spec air rifles @ muzzle........pity it's so loud.


  2. #2
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    Again....a matter of personal taste and choice.
    .... short story coming ....

    Mk3, is it really worth that price ? If there's a problem with that trigger unit, how long are you going to wait to have it repaired by Daystate in the UK ?
    (NJR and Pro-T triggers are much better than the Daystate triggers, any day under any conditions, and to make things even worse, they are much more adjustable - up,down, left, right, forward, backward ... 12 settings in total on Pro-T)
    The mk3 trigger is about as adjustable as the S400 and Hornet triggers !
    Why go electronic when mechanical triggers work perfectly (especially the target units)? I'm all for technology, but don't think it should be in a gun ! Looking at the conditions that you could be shooting in, the fact that it has to be charged, it then the fact that there are now 2 external sources, air being the one and recharging the other.
    How many World Class Target Rifles are there with "electronic triggers" ? Nice stock ... definately, It's actually a beautiful stock, but have a custom one made for R 2500 (and included in that will be a adjustable cheek piece. (Makes a worlds difference - you'll only understand it when you have one). I personally also like the finish on the Daystate...think it's much better than the AA and BSA finish...

    Problem with me looking at guns like the Daystate mk3 and the EV2, I look and them and think of other guns that can do EXACTLY the same thing at a third of the price ! Don't always want to refer to AA because it will start looking like I'm "working" for them (and I don't !) but the value of the S400 Classic is hard to beat. Then there is also the BSA Hornet, although not as easily customizable as the S400, but both offer EXCELLENT value for money. All the above mentioned guns are extremely accurate and also very consistent, but there are small things that really make a difference, like the stock on the EV2, adjustable cheek,knee and butt, that makes a huge difference but a adjustable stock can also be made for the S400 and Hornet (and for any other rifle aswell)

    The Chinese clones, well I've seen them and actually want to test one of them for a few days. Agree that the finish is pathetic ! Other problem ... PARTS !!! Target Specialists have had 2 of them for about 2 months, guess what, no filling adapter for cylinder on gun, nobody can refill them ! They have been on "order" for over 2 months and have still not arrived. I will sh.. myself if I have one of them, something breaks and have to be ordered from China, just imagine waiting 3 months for the part ! Keeping that in mind and also that the quality doesn't come even close to that of the English and German guns would anybody really want to own one ? I will rather pay that R 1500 extra it's definately worth it. Oh yes, no adjustable trigger (or so I was told)

    Aaah, the S400E/410E,
    the power story again ... (if not it's gonna lead to it)
    it's made with Pest Control and maybe even BenchRest in mind, but also bordering on the getting expensive side again ... (especially in 410 format). Amount of shots is a bit of a limiting factor, think it's about 35, but again, how much do you "hunt" (OR SHOULD I SAY POACH) on 1 trip ?
    The silencer, don't get me wrong I also use them, but think of it, who is it really for ? For the bunny wabit or for us ?
    After the bunny falls over from a perfect headshot at 100m from a offhand shooting position at 2x mag with the bunny running at full speed and the pellet hitting it as it jumps over a big rock...., does it really care that there's no noise ? It's dead already. Only other advantage could be that the other bunny's might not run away ... and that you can start all over again.

    On the guns, it's really personal choice, but I will not loose 2 minutes sleep if my competitor shoots with a Daystate, EV2, LG100 or custom Anschutz, a S400 and BSA can take them on and beat them, it's up to the shooters ...

    You will notice some sarcasm on the bunny shooting, not aimed at you in any way ! I just speak to too many people telling me these type of stories, like shooting a Springbuck at 300m from a offhand position using a .243 and a 3-9 scope, but ... it's a perfect HEART shot while it's in the air (jumping), and ... IT WASN'T LUCK, CAUSE IT WAS DONE TO 2 of them IN 1 DAY.


    <span class='smallblacktext'>[ Edited Fri Sep 03 2004, 08:40AM ]</span>

  3. #3
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    hi neilg, thanks for the interesting/thought provoking reply. excellent reading.............

    i don't really know the detailed spec of the MKIII and its competitors...........so the comments i made on the daysate are purely from my "skin-deep" observations. but then, if i had 30K's to burn, i will also not loose any sleep over the limited trigger adjustments. perhaps the elec. trigger is abit of over-kill. i've never shot one so i can't really make any judgement. i guess the only way to find out is to shoot the mkiii and harrier x side by side and see if there is a tangiable difference.

    yes, those chinese copies.......same story here re filling adaptors.

    while reading the SAFTAA rules on field target class, it states that specialist rifles such as EVII, Steyer, Walther...etc are in a seperate "experimental" class. is that still the case?

    re S410E, i was more impressed with its sheer power, ie. no change in POI from <25m to 45> and groupings than anything else. in practical terms 35 shot's plenty. though i must say, the more i shoot/hunt with air rifles, the more i enjoy field craft. i guess when a high powered air rifle is used, much of the challenge/fun is taken away.

    as for the silencer, i had no problems stalking/hunting with a "un-silenced" springer. however, the muzzle blast of un-silenced pcps = significantly louder. perhaps it's not 100%essential, but definitely nice to have.

    i'm getting more and more interested with the customized S400 idea, maybe with the hornet even. where can i get more info?

    thanks




  4. #4
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    You know me, I have to write short stories when I reply ...

    go to www.aftsa.co.za there is 1 or 2 reviews on it (mk3 daystate), but note that with reviews like Dale and Neil does they aren't allowed to say anything bad (they are all published in magazines), so read between the lines !
    As for difference between the two, yes there is a huge difference ... the price !! hahaha, but seriously I doubt that there would be much more than that ...

    SAFTAA rules, Jaco Human informed me that the experimental class she's no more ... (or will soon be). I asked him for an updated copy of the rules on Tuesday and I'm still waiting, he's very slow when it comes to sending me info, bad thing is if I don't have their rules I'll make my own !

    Have to agree with you on the field craft ! As for teh s4xE, benchrest shooters in CT love them and shoot amazing groupings with them at 50m (talking about 1 hole). Haven't personally shot one and would probably never buy 1, my interest is FT and 35 shots just isn't enough !

    I have a silencer on both the NJR and Pro-T, don't need them for FT but use them, we want our guns as quiet as possible but fit FreeFlows to our cars ... crazy isn't it. I personally believe that a silencer helps the shooter with accuracy, because of the reduced muzzle crack some people shoot better, me personally fit them wherever I can ...


    AS for customizing, Dale should be able to give you more accurate advise ...
    on the Hornet (personal opinion) I think you're a little limited when it comes fitting a longer cylinder but ofcourse the stock is fully customizable.
    What makes the S4x series so nice is that you can fit a Classic cylinder to the carbine and can fit a HighPower cylinder to the Classic, which ofcourse results on more (example 90 instead of lets say 60 ...)consistent shots, stock can be done by anyone who makes and works on stocks.
    For now I would say speak to Target Specialists and custom S400's or I could speak to them about it (the imported one is very expensive - R 10 000)
    I will start doing it in the future but will still be a few months, still need to buy some tools ...

  5. #5
    Sharp Shooter
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    Hi Guys,

    In respect of the aystate Mk3, it is not just an electronic trigger. The rifle does not have a mechanical striker mechanism, instead it features a solenoid that when activated strikes the firing valve.

    The firing cycle is quieter than a mechanical rifle and IMO only marginally quicker. The actual trigger mechanism is adequate rather than exemplary and does not come anywhere close to a good mechanical unit.

    I have tried and reviewed a Mk3 in comparison with my existing rifles and to be brutally honest I would not buy one as I don't think it offers any real benefit over its mechanical brethren, but has liabilities in the form of its overly technical system and reliance on twoo external power sources i.e compressed air and a need to charge the onboard batteries.

    In the UK they are fairly popular, but in the event of a malfunction the Daystate factory is a 24hr parcel post away. Now consider what happens in the event of a malfunction in SA and the bother of returning the rifle to the UK for repair.

    Re the Chinese airguns. I have not yet seen the XS50/51 rifle but I have examined some of the other recent offerings and found them to be quite good quality and with a little tuning they are nice accurate guns.

    Dale

  6. #6
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    So you guys are saying we must bring back the GOOD OLD STEAM ENGIN. mmmmmmmmm?

  7. #7
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    Now we're getting somewhere...
    Technology should take you in forward, if it takes you backward or leaves you in the same position then what exactly are you gaining ? ( at more than double the price ...)
    Why would someone pay between 2 to 3 times the price for something that is no better than any of the other products on the market ? The Daystate mk3 has absolutely no advantage over it's competitors !

    Technology (or any new product for that matter) should do 1 of a few things, like save you money, improve on a old product, be more user friendly, be more reliable ... and so forth, I don't see any of that in this case ...
    I have to say that I'm not prepared to pay R 19000 for the mk3, I will really rather buy 2 other PCP's like the S400 / Hornet with NS scopes, modify them, buy some pellets and have some money over ... then I have 1 to hunt with and 1 to shoot FT with ... and I won't have to stand back for a Daystate MK3.
    As I always say ...it's a matter of personal choice ... your money ... buy what you want ...
    <span class='smallblacktext'>[ Edited Wed Sep 08 2004, 08:58AM ]</span>

  8. #8
    Sharp Shooter
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    Quote Originally Posted by lewis
    So you guys are saying we must bring back the GOOD OLD STEAM ENGIN. mmmmmmmmm?
    No Cobus, that is not what I am saying.

    My point is from a reliability perspective. Whether the other UK based contributors to this site agree or not, the simple fact is I have seen examples of the Mk3 malfunction and have to be returned to the factory for repair because there are no other gunsmiths with the knowledge to work on them due to the electronics. Given that the Daystate factory is based in the UK, for Mk3 owners in the UK this is annoying but not particularly time consuming.

    However consider the position in SA, when you have paid about twice the price that this rifle commands in the UK and it malfunctions - a return trip to Daystate in the UK is a major issue. Should one of the mechanical Daystates or any other brand of air rifle malfunction you stand a pretty good chance of repairing it in country.

    Dale

  9. #9
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    Just pulling your Safari suits a bit. The high price is the reason why I will STAY a Daystate dreamer. I'm now looking into building a custom rifle with Alu stock for FT. I find it difficult to use my FT rifle for hunting as well and for this reason must get a dedicated FT rifle. Other rifle will be perfect for hunting and HFT.

  10. #10
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    what do you guys think about those apecialist target converted to FT air rifles??? eg. styer LG 100, Walther LG 300 dominator...etc from what i gathered, they are periced (roughly) half way between the custom S400 FT and MKIII. perhaps a better justifiable option (price). had a look at Guido's Steyer yesterday................must say it's truely adjustable. again, i'm getting ahead of myself here.....i should actually start FT before anything else.

  11. #11
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    Now we are talking GUNS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  12. #12
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    Urabus, First try FT before buying more equipment ...

    Lewis, sometimes you make me wonder ... you say now we are talking guns (LG100 and LG300), but again there is absolutely nothing that makes them better than the other FT guns on the market. Remember that we must compare apples with apples.

    On the 10m converted to FT guns I've heard good and bad (especially on the LG100) but I've chosen to ignore what I've heard (from a South African) due to reasons I won't go into on this forum.
    The Worlds was taken by a converted 10m gun ... aka ... Anschutz ... and now everybody will want one ...

    At this stage I own 2 amazing FT guns, a AA NJR100 and a AA Pro-Target MK3, the NJR is a beatiful and very accurate gun with some very nice adjustments but really doesn't compare to the Pro-T. The trigger on the Pro-T has alot more adjustments and is simply a much more comfortable gun. I shoot with the Pro-T and my one day to be brother in law shoots with the NJR. He's much bigger than me and prefer heavier guns so the NJR suits him very well...

    If I had to choose between the Steyr LG100 and the AA EV2 I would have to say that I would probably end up going the way of the Steyr. Price ofcourse playing a very big role in that choice. The gun comes from a 10m environment which makes if VERY adjustable which is a big bonus. Then there is also the stainless cylinder and barrel which has a lot less maintenance (no rust ... ever). I'm not mad about the LG stock, I prefer good old wood. But then the same goes for the painted EV2 stock (think alot of people stay away from the EV2 because of that silver stock). If I was ever the owner of a EV2 the first thing that would go would be the paint on the stock.

    Giudo knows alot more about the Steyr than I think anyone else in SA so he will be a much more reliable source when it comes to info on the Steyr...

    a extract from a review by Neil MacKinnon "The second thing I noticed was the stabiliser. This gun is dead. It?s as dead as a dead thing that?s died and been buried with DEAD written on it. I described the LG100 to a club mate as not so much being a gun, as a pellet launching device."
    The review is on the AFTSA website but after moving the website some of the pages seem to be corrupted. Have a look on Monday or Tuesday and read the complete review.

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