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Thread: Holy Grail of Air Rifle Accuracy

  1. #1
    Sharp Shooter
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    Default Holy Grail of Air Rifle Accuracy

    Here is a question for the experienced guys.

    What in your modest opinion would be the holy grail of air-gun accuracy?
    What rifles would be capable of accomplishing this.

    For me the holy grail would be a rifle consistently grouping 1" or less at 100m outdoors (in good to perfect conditions).
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  2. #2
    Sharp Shooter

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    A springer !
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  3. #3
    Sharp Shooter

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    should I be so lucky as too even to be able to cock it
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  4. #4
    Marksman

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pellet pusher View Post
    Here is a question for the experienced guys.

    What in your modest opinion would be the holy grail of air-gun accuracy?
    What rifles would be capable of accomplishing this.

    For me the holy grail would be a rifle consistently grouping 1" or less at 100m outdoors (in good to perfect conditions).

    This is would be my idea of nirvana!
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  5. #5
    SAFTAA FT Colours '15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pellet pusher View Post
    Here is a question for the experienced guys.

    What in your modest opinion would be the holy grail of air-gun accuracy?
    What rifles would be capable of accomplishing this.

    For me the holy grail would be a rifle consistently grouping 1" or less at 100m outdoors (in good to perfect conditions).
    Massively unrealistic, IMO. Are YOU good enough to group less than 1" at 100M? Very few are.
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  6. #6
    Marksman

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    Indoors, not really trying at 100y

    11 shot groups, if I shoot at the bottom of my breathing cycle and don’t forget to shoulder the rifle properly like here, I will shoot 1/2 to 1 inch, given the turbulence in the range I truly believe that the right gun will do 1 moa outdoors in good conditions, add sorted and weighted pellets and things get even better, the next time I am bored I will sort some 18.2 grains and post some more groups, too often I see people blaming themselves when in fact their gun is performing poorly.

    There is an article somewhere on this forum that talks about setting your reg pressure, valve and hammer to the knee of the reg set point, I have found that the same speed and a too high or low knee will result in unstable impulses, and the resulting groups widen significantly...

    I have owned several PCPs over the course of the past year and a half, only one of them shot like it should have without me adjusting via FPS,valve,hammer and reg tuning. Theses were all 25k + guns, no doubt cheaper guns will perform worse and require more tuning.

    I am an okay shot, I don’t compete or have colours. But I can, and do shoot at least 1 MOA group per shooting session, with the fans off at the range and sorted pellets it’s possible to shoot an entire 90 shot fill of 1moa groups, not counting obvious fliers that corkscrew out of control.

    FT guys, who do compete and have colours would eat me for breakfast with a .177 while I shoot .22, I think they shoot sub moa regularly in order to remain competitive...

    The moral of the story is that it is only massively unrealistic until you and your gun start doing it every day and you start taking pictures because people don’t believe it’s possible

    PelletPusher, still waiting for you to find a gap and join me for some 100yard fun, please bring that beautiful Steyr!

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  7. #7
    Sharp Shooter
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    Unrealistic? I do not agree.
    With the right equipment, perfect conditions and competent shooter it should be doable.
    That it would be difficult goes without question, that is why it is MY holy grail.

    Question was, what would other shooters regard as the holy grail of accuracy?
    What rifles would be able to achieve it?
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  8. #8
    Sharp Shooter
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    Quote Originally Posted by RiazP View Post
    Indoors, not really trying at 100y

    11 shot groups, if I shoot at the bottom of my breathing cycle and don’t forget to shoulder the rifle properly like here, I will shoot 1/2 to 1 inch, given the turbulence in the range I truly believe that the right gun will do 1 moa outdoors in good conditions, add sorted and weighted pellets and things get even better, the next time I am bored I will sort some 18.2 grains and post some more groups, too often I see people blaming themselves when in fact their gun is performing poorly.

    There is an article somewhere on this forum that talks about setting your reg pressure, valve and hammer to the knee of the reg set point, I have found that the same speed and a too high or low knee will result in unstable impulses, and the resulting groups widen significantly...

    I have owned several PCPs over the course of the past year and a half, only one of them shot like it should have without me adjusting via FPS,valve,hammer and reg tuning. Theses were all 25k + guns, no doubt cheaper guns will perform worse and require more tuning.

    I am an okay shot, I don’t compete or have colours. But I can, and do shoot at least 1 MOA group per shooting session, with the fans off at the range and sorted pellets it’s possible to shoot an entire 90 shot fill of 1moa groups, not counting obvious fliers that corkscrew out of control.

    FT guys, who do compete and have colours would eat me for breakfast with a .177 while I shoot .22, I think they shoot sub moa regularly in order to remain competitive...

    The moral of the story is that it is only massively unrealistic until you and your gun start doing it every day and you start taking pictures because people don’t believe it’s possible

    PelletPusher, still waiting for you to find a gap and join me for some 100yard fun, please bring that beautiful Steyr!

    Thanks you for the feedback RiazP!

    What rifles do you think would be capable?

    Ps. Very nice groupings!
    Pps. Hopefully soon I will be able to join you for some shooting.
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  9. #9
    Sharp Shooter

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    Not too shabby! Riaz what rifle? ,what type of pellets and velocity ?.
    I wish for a range where I can play without a powder burner going off next to me ,with most of the shooters having no clue or concern about safety of others around them ,
    and is not an hours drive away
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  10. #10
    Marksman

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    Hi Dogtrix,

    The rifle is a 5.5 Vulcan, itís pushing 18 grain JSB at about 870 FPS temp dependant, I have however achieved this speed via lowering the reg to 115 bar and increasing the plenum volume by about 10% (30 mm to about 33mm, the calculus involved in working out volume of a tapered ring is mind bending!)

    I have my valve tension adjusted per the manufacturers notes, and then turned in by half a turn to balance the reduced plenum pressure,

    Hammer spring is adjusted to the point that FPS starts to reduce with tightening, and then backed of by about 1/3 turn.

    this is a balancing act, I liked 855fps, but found that the 100y groups scattered to about 2inches with the odd wild flier at 3 or 4 inches. The move from 855 to 870 was done by playing with the reg, then valve, then finally chrony working the hammer.

    the key is to find the knee, this done correctly will result in very good ES, mine is at about 7 FPS for the whole fill, low impulse keeps the crosshairs on target while following through, and I get an extra mag of shots for a total of 99 from a 280cc cylinder.

    other guns that can group were the 5.5 Cricket, this is a good gun, no argument from me at all, the regulated first gen Bobcat, holly crap, if only FX made those smooth twist barrels again, I am sure my Impact would group too!!! Most 5.5 Vulcans out of the box will do 1.5 inches, find the right speed for your altitude and 1inch will happen frequently. My buddy has a .177 Vulcan that can shoot 1 moa, however that small Pellet really gets blown around outside! Compatto showed great promise and deserves an honourable mention but I had to return it before I could take it to the long range so I technically havenít tried printing at 100y.

    R3m not impressed, priest not impressed, Impact and I have a love hate relationship but I am not happy, watch this space... Wolverine not impressed.

    God willing I will have access to a Pulsar and Smooth twistx in .5.5mm soon, I have high hopes for both, may even make my Impact usable again!!!
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  11. #11
    Sharp Shooter

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    At 100 meters with an air rifle ???.

    Try shooting at that distance WITHOUT a rest or the other crutches that modern shooters need , and then come back here and report your results.



    Cheers.
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  12. #12
    SAFTAA Chairman
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    Trying to shoot at 100m out the shoulder without rests etc is not a good idea.

    Not many center fire shooters trying to shoot out the shoulder at 1000m.

    There is no reason to try shooting 100m out the shoulder, no competitions etc shooting like this so why do it. Just more chances of missing the target and back stop etc.
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  13. #13
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    If there is such a thing as "with boring regularity" in 100m airgun shooting then the venerable BSA Lonestar in 6.35mm must be a contender for the best ever long ranger. It regularly wins the Dutch 100m crew shoots. Going outdoors, I have seen Harry Fuller do amazing long range work with it too.

    9.5mm 5 shot group, 100m, BSA Lonestar 6.35mm, Gert, Netherlands 25/08/2013.
    9.5mm 5 shot group, 100m, BSA Lonestar 6.35mm, Gert, Netherlands 25/08/2013

    Other airguns get a look in from time to time. For example this 12mm group from a Wolverine .303
    12mm 5 shot group, 100m, Daystate Wolverine .303, Ingrid, Netherlands 26/04/2015
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  14. #14
    Sharp Shooter
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    i think "technically" those are air rifles...but with unlimited power and big calibre they are hardly windbukse as we know them.....

    I doubt very much they would get consistent 1" groups outdoors with a 20fpe 5.5mm....

    personally....if you can sit down with a 5.5mm or under air rifle....dial the scope in to 100m, and hit a 2" swinger 10/10...you and your rifle are doing pretty good....(not after 72 shots trying to figure out holdover and doping)...that's more like luck or law of averages...

    If the "golf ball challenge" involved 3 balls in consecutive shots....i doubt very much the guys would be getting out past 150m....(not to say nobody would do it)

    I have heard a lot of people claiming to shoot 100m easy...I've seen very few do it....

    I forgot to mention...there is a HUGE difference between 5 shot groups and 10 shot groups.....and flyers count....called or not....
    Last edited by Dallas; 13-11-17 at 13:28.
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  15. #15
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    OP asked what rifles can do 100m moa groups.....

    Out the box....probably very few...

    RAW

    FX Impact

    Vulcan

    Kalibrgun

    those are the ones i have seen or heard of...probably not consistently either....

    tuned rifles with weighed pellets....

    Theoben

    RAW

    FX

    Kalibrgun

    Vulcan

    Airforce

    Steyr (i know of a 4.5mm Steyr that shoots half inch groups with CPL's @ 1010fps regularly...a few videos around of it doing it)
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