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Thread: Starting to shoot

  1. #1
    Sharp Shooter

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    Default Starting to shoot

    Afternoon all

    I have been sitting here wondering.
    After Zelna replied and said that SFT is dying and HFT never happened, where to start?
    A proper FT scope costs a fortune while most of us have the makings of a HFT/SFT rig
    lying around.
    Go on the web a little, HFT is becoming one of the most contended disciplines around,
    specially in the UK.
    We need more shooters but if they cannot come through the ranks so to speak, where will
    they start?
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  2. #2
    REP: WS Airguns

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    We had the same discussions in George, wabted to start shooting FT at first, but yes; scopes were not budget friendly for a couplenof guys wanting to attract newbys.
    So GSSC HFT started, and took off well. Yes some Saterdays we are only 3 or 4, but those days are getting to be the exception.
    The regular shooting will take place as soon as there is a couple of regulars and they can spread the word. We share the scorws on a whatsapp group as well as GSSC web page with some fotos.
    Ullie worked his ass off with the targets and admin of shoots. He is the backbone of rhe GSSC Airgunners.
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  3. #3
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  4. #4
    Springer FT World Champion '09
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuberboef View Post
    Afternoon all

    I have been sitting here wondering.
    After Zelna replied and said that SFT is dying and HFT never happened, where to start?
    A proper FT scope costs a fortune while most of us have the makings of a HFT/SFT rig
    lying around.
    Go on the web a little, HFT is becoming one of the most contended disciplines around,
    specially in the UK.
    We need more shooters but if they cannot come through the ranks so to speak, where will
    they start?
    This is an eternal debate regarding the growth of FT in South Africa.

    IMO... It cannot be resolved. Period.

    There are three key factors that preclude growth.

    The first two are price of equipment and the lack of shooters. This is a self-propagating handicap.

    The scope is the key piece of kit that stops active, competitive participation for most people. One may be in possession of something like a (fit for purpose) CZ or AA S400, but if you cannot range, you cannot compete. The idealised 'just have fun' strategy does not build the passion required for a shooter to remain interested. Compete or fade away. Our market is also simply too small for importers to invest in, and carry 'good enough' budget glass on a wish and a prayer.

    Having said that about the glass.... Why, if Carbon Kid could shoot for a long time, using a 10-40 Chinese scope, AND BE COMPETITIVE, can others not do the same? Go figure.

    The lack of shooters is obviously influenced by the above factor, but IMO, it comes down to MARKETING.

    The sport lost a great opportunity by letting the AIM programme 'go idle'. It would have been an ideal way to build up an arsenal of 'competitive' pool kit over time from donations and sponsors - to (somewhat) mitigate the whole 'equipment' issue for those less affluent.

    Also, simply waiting for shooters to come and sign up is not the best strategy. Don't get me wrong... I know that this is not fully the case, but in general it is, and always has been. The incredible individuals that fight the good fight may want to look at doing things radically different? The key words are RADICALLY DIFFERENT. What that is...I don't know. To paraphrase inaccurately... Doing the same thing but expecting different results is putting yourself on a hiding to nothing.

    The third factors - Unfortunately, 'radically different' consumes (the most valuable resource of all).... time and money. The admins all have real life to attend to, and nobody has money.

    So, Mr Mostert... Buy yourself a R2500.00 ZOS and get out there. If Alan can do it, you can too. Just have fun and spread the word.
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  5. #5
    Protea FT Team '18/'19
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    First step to start shooting is to actually pitch up at the shoot, nê?
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  6. #6
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    Hello,

    Regarding the non-growth of FT shooting , here are some of my thoughts , I am not a participant , but perhaps this will explain why the average Joe does not participate in this discipline.

    The sport is far too specialized and commercialized.
    The cost of suitable equipment is out of reach of most of people , and this discourages participation , if you don't have Rxxxxxxx invested in equipment you will never be able to compete against others who are able to spend the money.

    Perhaps the following suggestion could be examined :-.

    Do what the Practical Pistol Shooters have done , introduce a production class where only totally
    unmodified rifles or pistols are allowed , perhaps two classes , PCP and Springers using only open or peep sights , no telescopic or other optical sights allowed.
    Design courses of fire that are feasible for these rifles.
    This may or may not encourage people to "have a go".
    I realize that this suggestion probably won't fly .

    Peace.

    Cheers.
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  7. #7
    REP: WS Airguns

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    As all has said; equipment is expensive for FT; it is just the scope.... so to overcome the problem: shoot HFT! Same targets, different positions, ordinary NS Targetmaster scope works perfect. But yes the you actually have to be able to judge distances and know how to work with holdovers.
    It's actually not that difficult.....
    How to start shooting? Just start shooting!!
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  8. #8
    Sharp Shooter
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuberboef View Post
    A proper FT scope costs a fortune while most of us have the makings of a HFT/SFT rig
    lying around.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bludlust View Post
    The first two are price of equipment and the lack of shooters. This is a self-propagating handicap.

    The scope is the key piece of kit that stops active, competitive participation for most people. One may be in possession of something like a (fit for purpose) CZ or AA S400, but if you cannot range, you cannot compete. The idealised 'just have fun' strategy does not build the passion required for a shooter to remain interested. Compete or fade away. Our market is also simply too small for importers to invest in, and carry 'good enough' budget glass on a wish and a prayer.

    Having said that about the glass.... Why, if Carbon Kid could shoot for a long time, using a 10-40 Chinese scope, AND BE COMPETITIVE, can others not do the same? Go figure.

    A 'proper FT scope' - now this is generally accepted to be on the lines of a 10-40 or 10-50, however, if you can educate people to not get hung up on this concept you can start to understand that you can get 95% of the way with much more basic kit.

    Back along I was shooting FT with a 6.5-20x40 Leupold EFR and I was doing OK with it because I spent the time learning how to use it effectively. Sure I couldn't define 52.5 yards but I could sure as hell work out 50 from 55 yds.

    The big mag scopes make life easier, but, if you are prepared to put in the effort even a mere 24x scope will perform.

    The other point to bear in mind is don't get hung up on side focus scopes, a good AO will allow decent rangefinding - remember the late Paul James used an old Bushnell 8-32x40 adjustable objective scope and he didn't seem to be disadvantaged.

    The key issue here is taking the time to learn how to use your kit - if you want instant results forget it, even if you have the money to buy a March or an S&B you will still have to learn how to use it, you cannot buy success.
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  9. #9
    Protea FT Team '12/'16/'17

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    This point has been bashed for years with no real outcome.

    FT is not expensive. you can start with a basic kit for +-R25000 - R30K. Same as Golf & MTB etc start basic and upgrade.
    Golf is almost 3-4x higher in costs to FT. Kit is the same price but participation costs are huge.

    ETC etc etc. You show me the high FT cost and ill show you that its cheaper then most individual sports period.

    Pellet guns in SA are seen by the general public as toys and this is the main reason why the sport struggles to grow as the public want to shoot REAL guns and not toys. Those that don't like guns don't like pellet guns either.

    etc etc etc.
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  10. #10
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    R25 000 to R30 000 is way above the local mans budget.
    Gamo springer with a 3-9x40 scope is more than enough for HFT ( R6000) and that is still to much for most people.
    For HFT you can mount a 3-9x40 on grandpa's old Gecado and still get a reasonable score.

    FT you can hit all the face plates and score a 0, not much fun in that, very disappointing for a beginner, especially the kids that is the future of the sport and has no fun factor for them.
    HFT you can hit all the face plates and score at least 30, a lot more fun and inspirational.
    Much easier, cheaper and fun for the juniors to grow into the sport and have fun with a lot less practice before you can actually log a descent score.

    Personally I think FT is for serious experienced shooters with deep pockets with the backing to upgrade equipment, where as HFT is huge fun for the family and at the same time there is a serious side for the experienced shooters.

    My intention with this personal opinion of our beloved sport is not at all to attack FT negatively, but to raise awareness and inspire people that there is an affordable and fun side to air rifle competitions.

    Cheers
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  11. #11
    Protea FT Team '12/'16/'17

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    Quote Originally Posted by UllUllA View Post
    R25 000 to R30 000 is way above the local mans budget.
    Gamo springer with a 3-9x40 scope is more than enough for HFT ( R6000) and that is still to much for most people.
    For HFT you can mount a 3-9x40 on grandpa's old Gecado and still get a reasonable score.

    FT you can hit all the face plates and score a 0, not much fun in that, very disappointing for a beginner, especially the kids that is the future of the sport and has no fun factor for them.
    HFT you can hit all the face plates and score at least 30, a lot more fun and inspirational.
    Much easier, cheaper and fun for the juniors to grow into the sport and have fun with a lot less practice before you can actually log a descent score.

    Personally I think FT is for serious experienced shooters with deep pockets with the backing to upgrade equipment, where as HFT is huge fun for the family and at the same time there is a serious side for the experienced shooters.

    My intention with this personal opinion of our beloved sport is not at all to attack FT negatively, but to raise awareness and inspire people that there is an affordable and fun side to air rifle competitions.

    Cheers

    Agreed and this is why there is SFT to accommodate these folks.

    I am not against HFT by any means. The more people that shoot the better. Its just better for all
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  12. #12
    Sharp Shooter
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    Field Target Shooting was first brought about to be a fun and safe shooting sport for anyone with an air rifle.

    There was no thought that it could get perverted into a high cost and elitist sport.

    It is a shame that the organisations of the day didn't look at the direction it was heading in and set some limits, but they didn't so the missed opportunity is now approaching 30 years in the past.


    Quote Originally Posted by UllUllA View Post
    FT you can hit all the face plates and score a 0, not much fun in that, very disappointing for a beginner, especially the kids that is the future of the sport and has no fun factor for them.

    Shooting FT at club level - which is the breeding ground for the new shooter, there is no valid reason that 2 for a kill and 1 for a strike can't be applied.

    When I first joined an FT club in the late 1980's this is what we did within the club. It was accepted that the competitive events were different. The club environment is where the shooter needs to develop their skills before going into competition.

    HFT is not some great new invention - it just rejigged some of the older ideas and added a few odd points. It has its own high price equipment race as well.
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  13. #13
    Springer FT World Champion '09
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dale View Post
    A 'proper FT scope' - now this is generally accepted to be on the lines of a 10-40 or 10-50, however, if you can educate people to not get hung up on this concept you can start to understand that you can get 95% of the way with much more basic kit.

    Back along I was shooting FT with a 6.5-20x40 Leupold EFR and I was doing OK with it because I spent the time learning how to use it effectively. Sure I couldn't define 52.5 yards but I could sure as hell work out 50 from 55 yds.

    The big mag scopes make life easier, but, if you are prepared to put in the effort even a mere 24x scope will perform.

    The other point to bear in mind is don't get hung up on side focus scopes, a good AO will allow decent rangefinding - remember the late Paul James used an old Bushnell 8-32x40 adjustable objective scope and he didn't seem to be disadvantaged.

    The key issue here is taking the time to learn how to use your kit - if you want instant results forget it, even if you have the money to buy a March or an S&B you will still have to learn how to use it, you cannot buy success.
    What he said!

    Hence my thinking that a cheaper 10-40X ZOS would work perfectly fine. Turned down to 32X, the clarity should be just fine. I NEVER ranged on 50X with my Lynx, T50 or my Sightron. I ranged and shot everything at 30X. People have to break the mindset that expensive is better. It's how you use it that counts.

    Carbon Kid proved it by clearing a course with a ZOS.
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  14. #14
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    Yes I know that SFT accommodates the budget class, that's awesome.

    It is awesome that the cape has FT and HFT.
    FT guys can compete at HFT shoots and develop there hunting skill to shoot without setting and ranging scopes.
    HFT guys can compete at FT shoots and get a hole lot of practice.

    Cheers
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  15. #15
    Protea FT Team '18/'19
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    Look nobody is going to stand in your way if you want to start a HFT club in Gauteng. I think it just a bit unfair to expect the FT fraternity to start a HFT league for you. I think there must be lots of guys who want to shoot HFT, just don't expect the FT guys to come join you, I m sure some of them will, but most of them are already kitted out for FT.
    Get a few guys who are interested, get a few targets and start shooting. If you don't organize it for yourself, no one is going to do it for you.
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