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Thread: Shooting long distance with a pcp

  1. #1
    Sharp Shooter

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    Default Shooting long distance with a pcp

    So was out shooting today with the pcp Hatsan BT65 4.5mm, shot with gamo TS-10 pellets 10.49gr... ended up making some good shots at around 170ish meters, and the gun is certainly capable of stretching further out... but I'm still getting to know the gun, I'm sure in time I'll be able to make 230ish m shots... anyone else with similar experience/knowledge on the actually range of similar pcp rifles?
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  2. #2
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    One thing I learned about shooting extreme distances with an air rifle is that you will eventually hit what you are aiming at.

    Have a look at Chairgun. It will generate the data you need.

    It is not the rifle that shoots the distances... it is the mechanics of an airgun. Any rifle shooting a pellet with a specific BC at a specific speed will have near identical results as another gun doing exactly the same.

    Anyone disagree?
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  3. #3
    Prof. Jan Itor

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    Anyone disagree?
    Of course ballistics are ballistics.

    But what about accuracy and precision results? Barrel, ES, SD to name a few variables. Generally speaking an 18gr JSB at 900 FPS/32.36 FPE launched out of a junky Chinturk barrel will not have the same accuracy (or even precision) as it would out of a Lothar Walther.

    But, you knew this................



    Real world data from Lampies Lamprecht and Harry Fuller

    12 FtLbf, .177 AA Field, 800 Ft/s -
    Max Range: 424 Yards,
    Optimum Angle: 22 Degrees,
    Terminal Energy: 0.303 FtLbf

    30 FtLbf, .177 AA Field, 1268 Ft/s -
    Max Range: 530 Yards,
    Optimum Angle: 18 Degrees,
    Terminal Energy: 0.303 FtLbf

    12 FtLbf, .22 AA Field, 582 Ft/s -
    Max Range: 451 Yards,
    Optimum Angle: 28 Degrees,
    Terminal Energy: 0.848 FtLbf

    30 FtLbf, .22 AA Field, 921 Ft/s -
    Max Range: 607 Yards,
    Optimum Angle: 23 Degrees,
    Terminal Energy: 0.848 FtLbf
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  4. #4
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    If all you want to do is punch random holes in a4 paper on the odd luck shot I would say yes sure definitely possible.

    Please take into consideration that there ire fairly accomplished shooters on this forum with well tuned rifles that are aiming to shoot under 1 inch groups at 100m.

    If just playing around sure go ahead just don't shoot anything moving(living).

    My 2c get a bigger caliber for long range work.

    Post some pictures of groupings we will be able to learn a lot more from the post.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen K View Post
    Of course ballistics are ballistics.


    But, you knew this................
    Yes I do.... and I made the fatal assumption that everyone else does too.

    All an air rifle is is an air source, a barrel and a pellet. Without stating the obvious about pellets, the barrel is the bit wot counts the most, besides consistent air source.
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  6. #6
    Sharp Shooter

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    What is it that makes a barrel stand out from others, do you need a longer barrel? In other words, if I want to get a barrel to aid me in shooting long shots, how will I select 1 ?
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  7. #7
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    Extra length alone doesn't guarantee accuracy, some rifles in HC (Hunter Carbine - short barrel) can be super accurate.
    Many owners have been known to trim a few inches off their barrels, often more for handling, but they would not do that at the expense of accuracy.

    Stick to the known better brands like HW, CZ, Walther, AA etc etc.
    The guys who search for those elusive one-hole groups at ridiculous distances have cupboards full of barrels, either discarded or still to be tested. There is no guarantee that the one barrel you get from wherever, will be THE ONE. Its a never ending search for perfection, enjoy the ride or accept what you got and work on your own skills and getting the best pellets you can. A bit easier than replacing and testing barrels for a start, but if you got a lemon, you may be forced to go the barrel change route.
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  8. #8
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    It’s all about the twist ratio and the depth of the rifling. It differs from different brands.
    There is Slow twist, smooth twist, Barly twist. It’s a huge since on it’s own.

    Length does play a role, but that’s purely due to the twist ratio. Thickness also needs to be considered. Barrels are normally the biggest kept secrets. That and a good dye of pellets that is claimed to take less wind.
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  9. #9
    Sharp Shooter

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    You see I'm not that concerned with groupings at those distances (let alone 1inch groupings), I'm basically trying to shoot a object (like a bottle or so), so 1 hit is all I need, I'm just trying to narrow down the amount of shots it takes to make that hit...
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kw2112 View Post
    You see I'm not that concerned with groupings at those distances (let alone 1inch groupings), I'm basically trying to shoot a object (like a bottle or so), so 1 hit is all I need, I'm just trying to narrow down the amount of shots it takes to make that hit...
    The objective is essentially the same. To hit the target. Putting a pellet in a specific place.

    Hence the need to take all factors into consideration. Otherwise it's just a waste of pellets until you hit something.

    The skill would come in when you shoot, see a puff of dust say short and left and the next shot you aim off accordingly and make the hit. With a bad batch of pellets, or a kak barrel, it becomes luck to a good degree.
    Last edited by Bludlust; 27-09-18 at 08:30.
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  11. #11
    Sharp Shooter

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    Yes I agree, using that puff of dust to accurately determine where to put your next shot is very satisfying indeed, especially if you can make accurate assumptions with factors such as wind at play... but I know what you mean, I've shot 10 shots at a bottle at 80m before, where some landed short, some left, some behind the bottle, whilst aiming in the same spot, with no wind... I'm blaming pellets? How will I know if my barrel is kak though? I haven't encountered a bad barrel yet, at least not that I've noticed, so how will I pick up if it needs replacing or not? (Im not talking about a broken or damaged barrel, strictly between a good barrel and a bad barrel)
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    Well first off, start by shooting paper. Go very big if you need to and track your shots. Missing a bottle will tell you nothing.
    Then shoot and make sure your technique is steady.
    Next pick up a pattern of what's going wrong, try to figure out what the problem is from there. This is a little like a clinical diagnosis of your dog when you take it to the vet. You can see what's going on but you don't know what's causing it. It's a hit and miss situation really. That being said, when you miss where you are aiming at, then your first reaction is generally NOT that you need a new barrel. It might be pellets, rest, some screws may be loose. Any of 1000 things could be going wrong.
    Lastly you need to ask yourself the question, What is acceptable? To me a 1 inch group at 100yards is acceptable. You just want to hit a bottle. To me, it makes no sense to spend a lot of money on a new barrel and test all the batches of pellets that JSB has ever made, sight in your gun in all 4 seasons, just to hit a bottle.
    Maybe try get out with a few friends and hear what they have to say when they shoot with your gun and go from there.

    To answer your question more directly, you COULD need a new barrel when you can't get any sort of grouping, even at closer distances, and you have factored out the fact that pellets are not to blame. I don't know when such time comes. I have shot my Steyr for over 8 years now and I have never replaced the barrel. I have replaced a bunch of other things, but never the main action, barrel, trigger unit and parts of the chassis.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kw2112 View Post
    Yes I agree, using that puff of dust to accurately determine where to put your next shot is very satisfying indeed, especially if you can make accurate assumptions with factors such as wind at play... but I know what you mean, I've shot 10 shots at a bottle at 80m before, where some landed short, some left, some behind the bottle, whilst aiming in the same spot, with no wind... I'm blaming pellets? How will I know if my barrel is kak though? I haven't encountered a bad barrel yet, at least not that I've noticed, so how will I pick up if it needs replacing or not? (Im not talking about a broken or damaged barrel, strictly between a good barrel and a bad barrel)
    Rule of thumb...

    A-grade rifles have a very high likelihood of having a good barrel
    Turkchin rifles (B-Z) have a smaller (read LOL Bwaaaahahahaha) chance of having a good barrel.

    Replacing a barrel must be mitigated against the initial value of the rifle. Putting lipstick on a pig is for people with more money than sense.

    How to determine the quality of a barrel... if you can't shoot a decent group at short distances.

    This is a bit more difficult to define on a springer, as there are so many other factors involved in generating a good shot... most of them shooter-related.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steyr Girl View Post
    Well first off, start by shooting paper. Go very big if you need to and track your shots. Missing a bottle will tell you nothing.
    Then shoot and make sure your technique is steady.
    Next pick up a pattern of what's going wrong, try to figure out what the problem is from there. This is a little like a clinical diagnosis of your dog when you take it to the vet. You can see what's going on but you don't know what's causing it. It's a hit and miss situation really. That being said, when you miss where you are aiming at, then your first reaction is generally NOT that you need a new barrel. It might be pellets, rest, some screws may be loose. Any of 1000 things could be going wrong.
    Lastly you need to ask yourself the question, What is acceptable? To me a 1 inch group at 100yards is acceptable. You just want to hit a bottle. To me, it makes no sense to spend a lot of money on a new barrel and test all the batches of pellets that JSB has ever made, sight in your gun in all 4 seasons, just to hit a bottle.
    Maybe try get out with a few friends and hear what they have to say when they shoot with your gun and go from there.

    To answer your question more directly, you COULD need a new barrel when you can't get any sort of grouping, even at closer distances, and you have factored out the fact that pellets are not to blame. I don't know when such time comes. I have shot my Steyr for over 8 years now and I have never replaced the barrel. I have replaced a bunch of other things, but never the main action, barrel, trigger unit and parts of the chassis.
    What she said. She knows her biscuits...even if she is just a woman, and a blonde at that.
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  15. #15
    Sharp Shooter
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    +1
    "How to determine the quality of a barrel... if you can't shoot a decent group at short distances."

    If it won't group @ 25 it won't do it @ 100 either....
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