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Thread: Grouping deteriorating

  1. #1
    Marksman

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    Default Grouping deteriorating

    Hi everybody,

    I have a HW97 that was incredibly accurate up to rather recently. I now have a problem where one of two things happen every now and then.

    1. point of impact shifts. Rifle will be grouping fine but out of 10 shots 6 will hit one spot and 4 will hit another giving two groups albeit that both are very good groups (by my beginner standards anyway)
    2. Sometimes 9/10 shots will group great, but then there will be one way out flyer. BY way out I mean it will impact about 3-4cm away from the group at 15m. With the group possibly 1,5 cm at worst.

    I have a Hawke Airmax 4-12, which is basically brand new. I have remounted the scope to make sure the scope is not perhaps moving around.

    I have also made sure that all the screws are properly tight as they do come loose from time to time, which I guess is just part of the nature of springers.

    Finally, my rifle is averaging 780ft/s (177).

    Any advise will be greatly appreciated
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  2. #2
    Sharp Shooter

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    What pellets do you use?
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  3. #3
    Sharp Shooter

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    Try cleaning the barrel.
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  4. #4
    Springer FT World Champion '09
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    Before you blame the rifle, check your technique. Make sure that you repeat your hand positions, as well as your eye position behind the scope. Make sure your trigger pull is STRAIGHT back. Check that you are not sometimes canting the rifle too. A cant, plus a parallax error, plus a bad trigger action could easily result in a superbly kak shot, leaving you wondering WTF.

    You have a good rifle, and the likelihood of it being the problem is slim. Pellets (Gamo pellets can do bad things to a PoI, for instance) and a clean barrel could also be an issue, but not 40mm @ 15m. Unless you cleaned it with a steel rod and damaged the crown. I assume you know the importance of an intact muzzle crown.

    The next thing to check is the scope, but only do it when your technique is sound. Put a different scope on the rifle. If your results improve dramatically, replace the scope.


    PS.... get someone else who is more competent than you to shoot it too. If they have issues, then you may have a technical/equipment issue.
    Last edited by Bludlust; 21-11-18 at 08:11.
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  5. #5
    Sharp Shooter

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    If its a newish rifle the HW97 tends to be a bit over-lubricated from the factory so there is often some dieselling and soot formation during the break in if you didn't strip and clean it from the start.

    Dirty barrel is my #1 suspect since you have a decent springer-rated scope and were getting good results previously.

    Blud's comments about hold sensitivity are valid though so if you recently changed something in your shooting setup that could also be the problem.
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  6. #6
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    This is perfectly normal for a springer, they are all made in hell and the devil resides in them. The best way to improve on the grouping would be to use a pcp. Just joking, I have a history with these things and just can't seem to shoot them consistently and always ended up with exactly what you described. Basically it is as Blud said, it will be your shooting technique, or grip, or something silly like that. Good luck with the groups.
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  7. #7
    Marksman

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    Thanks for all the replies.

    As much as I wanted to blame something else, i am starting to think it is just me not practicing enough or not having constant technique.

    Fortunately, I know a springer crackshot and will ask him to shoot the rifle too.

    Unfortunately, I kinda already know what the result is going to be.

    Thanks again for taking the time to respond. Much appreciated.

    PS, just to answer all questions:
    The rifle has only had JSB 8.4g pellets through it. Nothing else.
    The rifle had was dieseling badly when I got it, but has since been (briliantly) tuned by a very respectable tuner (JVL)
    I have never put anything other than pellets into that barrel, so never tried cleaning it etc.
    Rifle is about 6 months old and was tuned in September, if that is relevant
    Last edited by Dloubser; 21-11-18 at 10:13.
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  8. #8
    Springer FT World Champion '09
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dloubser View Post
    Thanks for all the replies.

    As much as I wanted to blame something else, i am starting to think it is just me not practicing enough or not having constant technique.

    Fortunately, I know a springer crackshot and will ask him to shoot the rifle too.

    Unfortunately, I kinda already know what the result is going to be.

    Thanks again for taking the time to respond. Much appreciated.

    PS, just to answer all questions:
    The rifle has only had JSB 8.4g pellets through it. Nothing else.
    The rifle had was dieseling badly when I got it, but has since been (briliantly) tuned by a very respectable tuner (JVL)
    I have never put anything other than pellets into that barrel, so never tried cleaning it etc.
    Rifle is about 6 months old and was tuned in September, if that is relevant
    Looks like you may have an operator issue
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  9. #9
    Sharp Shooter

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    Once the crack-shot gets the same result, clean the barrel. If that does not work, change the pellets, then try a different scope.

    It does sound to me like a bad batch of pellets with a deformed one every now and again. Try with a differrent batch and or head size.

    Could also be leading in the barrel. I have no idea how many pellets went through it.

    Thirdly, could be a scope issue. Check the mounts and mount-screws as well. Check that the mounts are not walking backwards. Check that the arrestor screw is seated in one of the holes on the action firm, but not over-tight. Try a different scope.

    Lastly, invest in a small bottle of blue loctite. It glues the screws in, but only need more effort to release. Not like the red, which you have to melt out.
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  10. #10
    Sharp Shooter

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    The barrel of any new rifle should get a proper clean by default. I have removed astounding amounts of factory gunk from new Weihrauch barrels.
    Recipe that works for me is to alcohol patch until reasonable clean, dry out, then light polish treatment with JB bore paste and tight fitting patch. Clean out with alcohol patches again until squeaky clean. Dry patch properly. Then patch barrel liberally with good penetrating oil, left for few hours with rifle upside down to prevent oil seeping into the piston internals. Dry patch.
    Barrel should take 10-20 shots to settle.
    I use pull through only. No rods. Take care to pull straight to prevent crown abration.

    To echo earlier advice: Change pellet lot, try Air Arms pellets, clean up your technique. Nominate every shot for POI. Increased shooting distance will better reveal operstor errors.
    Read and practise "The art of shooting a springer air rifle" by uncle Adrian.
    And accept that some days just ain't your day for shooting a springer consistently.
    Have fun.
    Last edited by kettieklip; 25-11-18 at 21:21.
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