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Thread: SPA / Artemis PR900 pcp opinion?

  1. #16
    Sharp Shooter
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    Yes the 'S' version should be the higher power version, the 'T' should come with a set of target sights.

    I have just done a bit of reading up on the PR900 which is distributed in the UK by SMK, according to the reviews it is giving roughly 25 shots in .177, which is OK as a vermin control rifle but a bit on the low side for target / plinking.

    I does look moderately respectable in terms of build, but, I do think I would personally put a bit more cash together and look for a better second hand rifle.
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  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dale View Post
    Yes the 'S' version should be the higher power version, the 'T' should come with a set of target sights.

    I have just done a bit of reading up on the PR900 which is distributed in the UK by SMK, according to the reviews it is giving roughly 25 shots in .177, which is OK as a vermin control rifle but a bit on the low side for target / plinking.

    I does look moderately respectable in terms of build, but, I do think I would personally put a bit more cash together and look for a better second hand rifle.
    Yeah, I'll rather save up for the cz-200 s . thanks a lot for the help and advice, I appreciate it
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  3. #18
    Sharp Shooter
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    I notice you are posting your questions regarding the PR900 over on Shooting The Breeze.

    I have given you the same basic advice there as on here.

    However, I thought it would be interesting to post your reply to me here as well for the local members to offer comment:


    Quote Originally Posted by Umbra, post: 339436, member: 8701
    yeah, I'd have to save more than 6 months for the cz200 which is 12k for the gun alone (nevermind the cylinder or hand pump) It is is far too much for me, and apparently I cannot use the cz200s in competitions either, just the cz200t, so why pay that much for something that will remove the possibility for longer ranges or even ratting which is what I do far more than club shooting? the cz2oot is too weak for 1cm sized targets past 20 meters apparently and I enjoy shooting targets up to 40m or 50m distance as a maximum when I go camping.
    Quote Originally Posted by Umbra, post: 339436, member: 8701

    I am quite done with springers. The weakening of the springs and being limited to just light (sub 10 gn) pellets is getting me just a little annoyed and I've been using springers since I was 5. I'm 21 now, and shooting 1cm sized targets with springers is near impossible.
    I want something that is bolt action and not single shot, but I'm staying FAR away from co2 guns too. I'm sick and tired of having to spend so much on co2 cartridges. Springers are also far too loud. I can easily make a silencer, and have, but the spring itself is just too loud.



    I know from what you said on this site that you want to compete in 10m target shooting, realistically a gun that is set up for the requirements of 10m is not necessarily going to be good for field use without alterations, that is a simple fact of life.

    I don't really understand what you mean that the CZ200T is 'too weak' for shooting beyond 20m, I have enjoyed a little plinking game termed mini-sniping (originally devised by Peter Capstick many years ago - http://www.minisniping.org/overview.html ), it is good fun and even a 6 ft.lbs match rifle is surprisingly effective they are outside of their normal usage, my personal favourite for this game is an FWB Mod300S Running Boar - a 6ft.lbs spring rifle!

    As to your comments regarding springers, well I am not going to be as reserved and polite as I was on STB.

    Quite frankly you are talking total rubbish.

    If you have based this opinion on the guns you currently list as owning i.e. Bam B1, Bam B3 and a Gamo CFX, then consider that the first two are garbage and better used as fence posts.

    The Gamo is a budget rifle but can be coaxed to perform above its price bracket, just search on this site what some of the members have been able to achieve with them.

    You say that shooting 1cm sized targets with springers is near impossible - well I say horseshit - use quality gear with quality pellets and above all learn how to use them well and you will find hitting small targets even out to 50m is actually not as impossible as you suggest.

    I would point out that a pcp is not a magic gun, there are good and mediocre out there and even the best ones won't hit a 1cm target at all distances every time.

    As to springers being just too loud - again another load of nonsense, of course they sound loud with the action being so close to your ear, but get someone else to shoot it and stand a few metres from the rifle and it is suddenly a lot quieter.

    Also proper fitting spring guides and just the right amount of lubricant make spring rifles very refined in their operation, but that is one of the benefits of experience.
    Last edited by Dale; 11-12-19 at 12:51.
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  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dale View Post
    I notice you are posting your questions regarding the PR900 over on Shooting The Breeze.

    I have given you the same basic advice there as on here.

    However, I thought it would be interesting to post your reply to me here as well for the local members to offer comment:





    I know from what you said on this site that you want to compete in 10m target shooting, realistically a gun that is set up for the requirements of 10m is not necessarily going to be good for field use without alterations, that is a simple fact of life.

    I don't really understand what you mean that the CZ200T is 'too weak' for shooting beyond 20m, I have enjoyed a little plinking game termed mini-sniping (originally devised by Peter Capstick many years ago - http://www.minisniping.org/overview.html ), it is good fun and even a 6 ft.lbs match rifle is surprisingly effective they are outside of their normal usage, my personal favourite for this game is an FWB Mod300S Running Boar - a 6ft.lbs spring rifle!

    As to your comments regarding springers, well I am not going to be as reserved and polite as I was on STB.

    Quite frankly you are talking total rubbish.

    If you have based this opinion on the guns you currently list as owning i.e. Bam B1, Bam B3 and a Gamo CFX, then consider that the first two are garbage and better used as fence posts.

    The Gamo is a budget rifle but can be coaxed to perform above its price bracket, just search on this site what some of the members have been able to achieve with them.

    You say that shooting 1cm sized targets with springers is near impossible - well I say horseshit - use quality gear with quality pellets and above all learn how to use them well and you will find hitting small targets even out to 50m is actually not as impossible as you suggest.

    I would point out that a pcp is not a magic gun, there are good and mediocre out there and even the best ones won't hit a 1cm target at all distances every time.

    As to springers being just too loud - again another load of nonsense, of course they sound loud with the action being so close to your ear, but get someone else to shoot it and stand a few metres from the rifle and it is suddenly a lot quieter.

    Also proper fitting spring guides and just the right amount of lubricant make spring rifles very refined in their operation, but that is one of the benefits of experience.
    I gave you my opinion and that's it. it doesn't matter if you agree or disagree. I don't like springers as much anymore, and they don't suit what I want anymore, but that doesnt mean I was egging on them, it was just my personal opinion of what I require at the moment: something that is not single shot, something that doesnt have a spring, something that can shoot heavier pellets, something that I can tinker with by myself and don't have to rely on the whims and schedule of others to make a simple adjustment. I want to go up to something a bit more advanced without breaking my pocket, and if that's a problem... well, I cant do anything about that :/ good springers cost just as much as cheap-ish pcp's from what I've seen. the pr900 is 3500 ish, (5500 with a pump) and a good springer is about 7000. thats the reason I asked about the pr900 on the other forum and how else one could modify it. I didnt do it to compare which type of gun is better or worse, because better or worse is relative to the person you ask.

    I used to have a norica dream hunter. I could actually shoot 1cm sized targets with that springer, and I loved that gun, but I gave it away because it got weaker before my very eyes as I used it. I kept it lubed, kept it clean, never used too light pellets, never used overweight pellets, and didn't even use it all THAT much. that's the main reason I'm done with springers. that, and they are single shot.

    a pcp is not a magic gun, you are right. it's a relatively simple tool. something you use and improve, tweak, use more and eventually move on from. I'm moving on away from springers and to pcp's, a similar tool of a different category. again, I'm not egging on springers, I'm just saying that I want to move on to pcp's without committing suicide regarding money. I asked about the pr900 because I found out that I can just rent a cz200t at the club, and have the higher power rifle for myself. that doesn't mean I'm solely focussed on the pr900 either. I'm just doing research on it, and asking about it. I'm more likely on going for the nova vista hp900, but I'm still gonna ask about the pr900 either way.

    anyways, regarding what I've read about 5 or 6 ft/lb guns, most people (from around the internet, no one specifically, just generally as I've noticed) says that I won't be able to use it at all at extended ranges, but then again, I don't have experience with sub 10 ft/lb guns so that's just me repeating what I've heard. I could be wrong, I could be right. most probably yes you can use then for sniping beer bottle caps at 30 meters with the right pellets that your rifle likes. best, just compensate for some slight more drop. if it's a good gun, the spread will add up linearly with distance (5mm spread at 10m will be a 10mm spread at 20m) and that goes for springers too.

    yes, my springer is loud. if I let someone else shoot it (and I have when I visit a friend's house out in dominionville) and I stand 10 meters away, it claps like a hecker. put a silencer on it and it's... somewhat tamed, but it's still quite loud. 20 meters away and it starts to get rather silent without a silencer, but put a silencer on it then and it's like someone threw a wet rag against a large window... but sharper and more airgun-like... well, strong-spring-in-a-tube-ish. still too loud for garden shooting if I go to a place which I may go shooting, but dogs and people can be disturbed. I do not want to disturb people, and a pcp can be silenced very effectively. Yes, Some springers are actually extremely silent, far more than mine at the same power level.
    I don't actually base the noise level off of my own hearing, right next to my head, because as someone else said: "I dunno about you, but my neighbors do not live at the end of my barrel, they live 20 or more meters that way."

    sorry if I caused issue, I didn't mean to, but I'm just saying things as I understand them and as I've been told by others, and without people helping me right without being rude (cos at that point I will start ignoring them and not learn anything more), I will stay retarded. I ask to learn. I only ask that those who read my messages try to understand that I am not them, I do not share your experiences, and as such, I ask that those who read my messages consider this and try to understand where I am coming from. I don't mean to sound rude or anything. I just want help without being swore at.

    so I'm talking rubbish and horseshit? you are being inconsiderate of where I come from: inexperienced and trying to learn, perhaps also not thinking stuff through properly. You were there too, we all have to start somewhere, and if that means regurgitating false info like I have, correct me, don't tell me stuff like that "horseshit" and "rubbish". be patient with the new guys.

    I'm not afraid to admit that I am or will be wrong many times more, but point it out respectfully.
    Last edited by Umbra; 11-12-19 at 19:06.
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  5. #20
    Marksman
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    Ok. My 10c in this thread.

    PR900W: A 21ft.lb+ chinese air rifle that is going to feel great while you 2 have a honeymoon phase together. After 3 months of shooting, the bolt is probably going to give in and start dry firing. The trigger is ok-ish. The magazine was designed by Satan himself and the finish isn't where I'd expect it to be.

    On a plus note, the barrel isn't all that bad and its great if you like tinkering around. But at the end of the day, there's a reason its only R3500. I bought my LGV for 5 grand and it was in fair condition used.

    For R3500 plus pump(btw a terrible idea. Just get a tank) you're looking a lot of frustration.

    As a side note. There is a mythical air rifle that does everything well, but I heard its harder to find than a rocking horse turd.
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  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Thomas View Post
    Ok. My 10c in this thread.

    PR900W: A 21ft.lb+ chinese air rifle that is going to feel great while you 2 have a honeymoon phase together. After 3 months of shooting, the bolt is probably going to give in and start dry firing. The trigger is ok-ish. The magazine was designed by Satan himself and the finish isn't where I'd expect it to be.

    On a plus note, the barrel isn't all that bad and its great if you like tinkering around. But at the end of the day, there's a reason its only R3500. I bought my LGV for 5 grand and it was in fair condition used.

    For R3500 plus pump(btw a terrible idea. Just get a tank) you're looking a lot of frustration.

    As a side note. There is a mythical air rifle that does everything well, but I heard its harder to find than a rocking horse turd.
    This was the info I wanted, thanks. details like the magazine, the trigger, the bolt and all that.
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  7. #22
    Sharp Shooter
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    Right first off I am not going to apologise for my forthright comments, I have been patient in my answers to your earlier questions, if I wanted to be 'rude' I would have gone a hell of a lot further than what I said.

    As to my preferences, yes, I like spring airguns, however, I also like pre-charged guns, CO2, single stroke pneumatics and multi pump pneumatics. What I do not like are crap guns and there are a lot of airguns out there that fall into this category.

    Now lets try and get some straight answers.

    You say you have had a Norica Dream Hunter, again this is a fairly mundane air rifle rather than a real quality air rifle so I wouldn't base an argument on the qualities of spring powered air rifles on it. As to its 'weakening' a lot of these budget air rifles are marketed with velocities of 1000fps plus, this marketing is more to appeal to a section of society (generally the product of humans mating with vegetables) who only care about how fast and how much power, never mind if the damned thing couldn't hit a barn door when you stand inside the barn with the door closed.

    There are air rifles that are capable of higher power levels with attendant high accuracy, but these are tending to be more specialised and with a price tag to match, I am personally not a fan of the electronically controlled pcp Daystates for example, but I cannot deny that they can certainly perform, but you are going to pay for the privilege, unfortunately the cheap stuff is largely going to be just that, cheap and variable in terms of quality.

    Yes modifications can be made, but there is an old saying that you cannot polish a turd, but you can roll it in glitter. At the end of the day it will still be a cheap gun but with go faster stripes and you would never see back any of your investment into it.

    Anyway, back to the springers for now.

    So, based upon what you have said, you have not or do not own a good quality spring air rifle, nor have you had your CFX tuned or otherwise worked on?

    If that is the case you don't have any realistic frame of reference as to what a decent spring air rifle is capable of.

    A quality, well tuned spring air rifle is a real joy to use and is not overly intrusive to shoot. Indeed a Gamo CFX is capable of being worked on to be a much better mannered rifle than an out of the box example and by worked on I don't mean a massive outlay, either go for a quality steel spring with properly fitted spring guides and lube or if you prefer the gas-ram option.

    What I would say is don't try and push for max velocity, rather have consistent and accurate running just under 800fps (in 4.5mm) rather than shotgun patterns at high velocity.

    Another issue to factor in is what you use as a backstop for your pellets, some are very noisy, others can be nearly silent. That makes a big difference.

    In terms of using 6 ft.lbs guns at longer distances, they can be surprisingly effective, of course the wind has a greater effect. As to your assertion about a 'linear spread' to be honest from my own experimentation this doesn't prove to be the case.

    Anyway I would sum up by saying buy the best quality you can go for, if it means saving for longer then so be it, as it will be worth the wait.
    Last edited by Dale; 12-12-19 at 12:57.
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  8. #23
    Sharp Shooter
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    Quite
    I agree with this, you get what you pay for
    I have Numerous SPA rifles and handguns.

    Yes the PR900w is ok as an infrequent shooter. same as my P15. Its a nice rifle. is it as good as a CZ or FX or AA or HW (insert other brands here). no way in hell. but depends on your needs
    Im happy with my chinese shooter. i dont shoot much and when i do its fine. I find its trigger is fine, but the magazine is horrid. (i changed to a single shot adapter) the finish...meh....could be better but not bad. the stock....meh...can be changed. the barrel seems fine (for my skill level) the bolt etc all seem crisp enough.
    long story short. i could not justify spending 10k+ for a rifle im using once a month. so this one was in my budget and it works just fine for MY NEEDS. (DEFINE YOUR NEEDS. what do you want it for? plinking or comp or PC etc)

    If you are going to shoot ever single weekend or shoot comp then dont buy chinese (although they are getting much better with every new version)
    cheers

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Thomas View Post
    Ok. My 10c in this thread.

    PR900W: A 21ft.lb+ chinese air rifle that is going to feel great while you 2 have a honeymoon phase together. After 3 months of shooting, the bolt is probably going to give in and start dry firing. The trigger is ok-ish. The magazine was designed by Satan himself and the finish isn't where I'd expect it to be.

    On a plus note, the barrel isn't all that bad and its great if you like tinkering around. But at the end of the day, there's a reason its only R3500. I bought my LGV for 5 grand and it was in fair condition used.

    For R3500 plus pump(btw a terrible idea. Just get a tank) you're looking a lot of frustration.

    As a side note. There is a mythical air rifle that does everything well, but I heard its harder to find than a rocking horse turd.
    Last edited by speedfox_2002; 12-12-19 at 11:52.
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  9. #24
    Sharp Shooter
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    oh btw. 10c pieces can be hit at 55m 8 times out of 10 with a HW97K out of the box. just saying....
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  10. #25
    Sharp Shooter
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    Quote Originally Posted by speedfox_2002 View Post
    oh btw. 10c pieces can be hit at 55m 8 times out of 10 with a HW97K out of the box. just saying....

    Quality kit is capable.

    The skill on the other hand takes time to learn.
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  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dale View Post
    Right first off I am not going to apologise for my forthright comments, I have been patient in my answers to your earlier questions, if I wanted to be 'rude' I would have gone a hell of a lot further than what I said.

    As to my preferences, yes, I like spring airguns, however, I also like pre-charged guns, CO2, single stroke pneumatics and multi pump pneumatics. What I do not like are crap guns and there are a lot of airguns out there that fall into this category.

    Now lets try and get some straight answers.

    You say you have had a Norica Dream Hunter, again this is a fairly mundane air rifle rather than a real quality air rifle so I wouldn't base an argument on the qualities of spring powered air rifles on it. As to its 'weakening' a lot of these budget air rifles are marketed with velocities of 1000fps plus, this marketing is more to appeal to a section of society (generally the product of humans mating with vegetables) who only care about how fast and how much power, never mind if the damned thing couldn't hit a barn door when you stand inside the barn with the door closed.

    There are air rifles that are capable of higher power levels with attendant high accuracy, but these are tending to be more specialised and with a price tag to match, I am personally not a fan of the electronically controlled pcp Daystates for example, but I cannot deny that they can certainly perform, but you are going to pay for the privilege, unfortunately the cheap stuff is largely going to be just that, cheap and variable in terms of quality.

    Yes modifications can be made, but there is an old saying that you cannot polish a turd, but you can roll it in glitter. At the end of the day it will still be a cheap gun but with go faster stripes and you would never see back any of your investment into it.

    Anyway, back to the springers for now.

    So, based upon what you have said, you have not or do not own a good quality spring air rifle, nor have you had your CFX tuned or otherwise worked on?

    If that is the case you don't have any realistic frame of reference as to what a decent spring air rifle is capable of.

    A quality, well tuned spring air rifle is a real joy to use and is not overly intrusive to shoot. Indeed a Gamo CFX is capable of being worked on to be a much better mannered rifle than an out of the box example and by worked on I don't mean a massive outlay, either go for a quality steel spring with properly fitted spring guides and lube or if you prefer the gas-ram option.

    What I would say is don't try and push for max velocity, rather have consistent and accurate running just under 800fps (in 4.5mm) rather than shotgun patterns at high velocity.

    Another issue to factor in is what you use as a backstop for your pellets, some are very noisy, others can be nearly silent. That makes a big difference.

    In terms of using 6 ft.lbs guns at longer distances, they can be surprisingly effective, of course the wind has a greater effect. As to your assertion about a 'linear spread' to be honest from my own experimentation this doesn't prove to be the case.

    Anyway I would sum up by saying buy the best quality you can go for, if it means saving for longer then so be it, as it will be worth the wait.
    I see what you mean, and I apolagise for my earlier words. I guess I was a bit snappy.

    yeah, I'll see what I can go about saving up more for something better, and I'll look at springers too, but I really want a pcp specifically for the multi shot capability at a mere cocking of a bolt without changing my position much.

    My purpose would would be "backyard plinking". I enjoy shooting beer bottle-lid-sized targets at about 15 to 20 meters when its possible via tripod or using some sort of gun rest. occasionally ratting too or some pest control, but I refuse to shoot if I cannot make a clean kill. Not sure if I can kill a pigeon with a 7.5j gun tho. should I get one that's of that power level. I'd rather use my cfx for them with good pellets

    every now and then I find a pellet batch that lets me do that with my cfx. yesterday i got a batch of h&n field targets round noses that actually groups rather well. like, surprisingly well, not perfectly, but yeah...

    My problem is, I don't have that much money to spend. I think that's where this whole big hoo-hah comes from :
    currently I'm trying to sell my old paintball guns which I don't really use that much anymore to save up some cash for a decent pcp (hhooppeeeffullyyy a cz200, but it would be secondhand. I saw a few secondhand ones for sale on gunafrica. I guess I can say I'm not really scared of 7.5j airguns anymore either, if it's a good one.)
    even my 3d printer was cheaper than the pr900 (it was R3000)
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  12. #27
    Sharp Shooter
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    No problem, communicating in this manner you can lose some of the context of face to face conversation.

    Right mostly for backyard plinking then.

    First off are you in an area where this will be legal, as I am aware that your aren't allowed to shoot in your garden within town?

    If it is legal to do so then avoiding causing a nuisance is always going to be favourable.

    For your intended use, I wouldn't write off going for a spring gun, but as stated previously with emphasis on a quality gun.

    At the lower power end the Weihrauch HW30 is a brilliant little rifle, light accurate and quiet, it will run at around 7 ft.lbs in 4.5mm.

    Stepping up in power the HW50S is also a nice little rifle as is the HW95, this latter with the HW silencer fitted and a lube tune is a potent and accurate performer, the Walther LGV is also a highly regarded rifle.


    HW95 Luxus in 4.5mm - tuned action with HW silencer.

    If you want higher power from a spring air rifle then the HW80 is one of the best, but is heavy, although the weight is a side effect of the bulkier action needed to get the 20-22 ft.lbs energy from them and still have an accurate rifle.

    If you prefer fixed barrel rifles then the HW77 / HW97K, Air Arms TX200 and Walther LGU are fine performers, all of which will benefit from a light fettle out of the box to get the very best out of them.


    Walther LGU 4.5mm (bottom) and custom Air Arms TX200 also in 4.5mm.

    There are of course rifles offered by Hatsan, Gamo etc, but for the most part these are not great and I would personally not recommend them.

    There is one budget level break barrel spring rifle that I consider to be one of the 'hidden gems' and that is the Remington Express, a lot of gun for not a lot of money and with a little light work gets very close to the more expensive offerings from HW.


    Remington Express 4.5mm.

    The beauty of the springers is they are self contained, not needing an external power source, unlike pcp which requires either a pump or suba type tank which of course bumps the cost up significantly.

    Multi-shot capability is a luxury that to be honest is not essential and if brutally honest a bad multi shot is worse than useless.

    In terms of shooting beer bottle caps from a rest - really learn to do this either offhand or from an FT type sitting position. With practice and using decent kit that is a lot easier than your experience to date would imply:



    As to pest control with a 7.5J / 6 ft.lbs gun, given the rules on this subject on the forum I won't go into graphic detail, however, on small pests at short distances (up to 20 m) this is not a problem, the critical issue is shot placement. If you can put the pellet exactly where it needs to go then that energy level will do the job. Of course your own ethics in respect of your abilities play a critical role here as well, so be totally honest with yourself.

    I can relate to the cash issues, I had a similar thing at your age, however, from experience buying cheap doesn't solve anything, overall it is much better to be patient and save to buy something good in the first place. It saves on disappointment, plus if you want to upgrade later quality kit, if looked after, holds a re-sale value which the cheap gear will not.

    The other thing is look at secondhand guns, when someone wants to upgrade there are often bargains to be had and you will often get something way better for your money than buying new.

    Having to wait to be able to afford nicer kit can be frustrating but in the long run it is worth it.
    Last edited by Dale; 12-12-19 at 15:11.
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  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dale View Post
    No problem, communicating in this manner you can lose some of the context of face to face conversation.

    Right mostly for backyard plinking then.

    First off are you in an area where this will be legal, as I am aware that your aren't allowed to shoot in your garden within town?

    If it is legal to do so then avoiding causing a nuisance is always going to be favourable.

    For your intended use, I wouldn't write off going for a spring gun, but as stated previously with emphasis on a quality gun.

    At the lower power end the Weihrauch HW30 is a brilliant little rifle, light accurate and quiet, it will run at around 7 ft.lbs in 4.5mm.

    Stepping up in power the HW50S is also a nice little rifle as is the HW95, this latter with the HW silencer fitted and a lube tune is a potent and accurate performer, the Walther LGV is also a highly regarded rifle.

    https://www.airrifle.co.za/attachmen...9&d=1570429244
    HW95 Luxus in 4.5mm - tuned action with HW silencer.

    If you want higher power from a spring air rifle then the HW80 is one of the best, but is heavy, although the weight is a side effect of the bulkier action needed to get the 20-22 ft.lbs energy from them and still have an accurate rifle.

    If you prefer fixed barrel rifles then the HW77 / HW97K, Air Arms TX200 and Walther LGU are fine performers, all of which will benefit from a light fettle out of the box to get the very best out of them.

    https://www.airrifle.co.za/attachmen...8&d=1411830001
    Walther LGU 4.5mm (bottom) and custom Air Arms TX200 also in 4.5mm.

    There are of course rifles offered by Hatsan, Gamo etc, but for the most part these are not great and I would personally not recommend them.

    There is one budget level break barrel spring rifle that I consider to be one of the 'hidden gems' and that is the Remington Express, a lot of gun for not a lot of money and with a little light work gets very close to the more expensive offerings from HW.

    https://www.airrifle.co.za/attachmen...8&d=1567489675
    Remington Express 4.5mm.

    The beauty of the springers is they are self contained, not needing an external power source, unlike pcp which requires either a pump or suba type tank which of course bumps the cost up significantly.

    Multi-shot capability is a luxury that to be honest is not essential and if brutally honest a bad multi shot is worse than useless.

    In terms of shooting beer bottle caps from a rest - really learn to do this either offhand or from an FT type sitting position. With practice and using decent kit that is a lot easier than your experience to date would imply:

    https://www.airrifle.co.za/attachmen...7&d=1411830036

    As to pest control with a 7.5J / 6 ft.lbs gun, given the rules on this subject on the forum I won't go into graphic detail, however, on small pests at short distances (up to 20 m) this is not a problem, the critical issue is shot placement. If you can put the pellet exactly where it needs to go then that energy level will do the job. Of course your own ethics in respect of your abilities play a critical role here as well, so be totally honest with yourself.

    I can relate to the cash issues, I had a similar thing at your age, however, from experience buying cheap doesn't solve anything, overall it is much better to be patient and save to buy something good in the first place. It saves on disappointment, plus if you want to upgrade later quality kit, if looked after, holds a re-sale value which the cheap gear will not.

    The other thing is look at secondhand guns, when someone wants to upgrade there are often bargains to be had and you will often get something way better for your money than buying new.

    Having to wait to be able to afford nicer kit can be frustrating but in the long run it is worth it.
    Man, the rifles in the pics you sent are pretty things...

    But yeah, I was somewhat aware/suspicious its illegal to shoot in town, Now I'm sure. (I think I read it on another thread, but I forgot about it) I guess garden shooting is out of the question for me now then, even if I have a good spot to shoot. it's rather sad actually :/ actually, perhaps it's a bit of a silly law too considering how it's never really enforced and... err, I'll just hold my tongue there, I don't want to say something stupid as that's a bit of an area I cannot really touch on. regardless of that, I guess I'll follow it, thanks for reminding me of it.

    I do have a safe 10, maybe 14 meter indoor space to shoot in though (Not the hallway), guess that's a bit of a consolation and it's already rather fun shooting my crossman indoors in a sort of "range" I made. I'm quite thankful that my family don't really mind (as long as I use common sense and take care of safety and clean up after myself.)

    I have a bunch of other places to shoot at too, not including the range. bit annoying to have to drive off if I want to shoot at farther ranges and often impractical, but yeah. I can always go out to the veld away from people (not the veld next to the highway, that's way too dangerous.) or really any uninhabited spot that's away from people if I really want a longer range fix.

    I have a bit of an off question though. if a springer is taken well care of, how long would you say a spring lasts? and gas rams too, how long do they last? I've only shot enough to see about a 150-200 fps drop (noticeable to me, but... oonnllyyy barely...) and that was from my norica which I had since I was I think12-ish... can't really remember. the friend I gave it to still uses it and he enjoys it. I'm actually glad he does.

    I'll take a look at those you mentioned above. I'll really consider them, but yeah.

    Thanks a bunch for your words ey. I'm legit glad we could sort this out.
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  14. #29
    Sharp Shooter
    The Professor

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    Unfortunately, whether the law is 'silly' we do need to stay on the right side of it, plus there is enough bad press for airgun ownership with idiots breaking the law, don't become a statistic. I would suggest you refer to the sticky thread on the Airgun Discussions page for further information.

    Nice that you have an indoor 'range' - you do know that you can get a shoulder stock for your Crosman 1377. Indoors with two to three pumps and a quiet backstop you should be able to put in some worthwhile practice with it as a carbine. I can manage about 6 metres at home, just enough for some target pistol and bell target shooting, otherwise I have to go to one of my clubs to shoot.

    In terms of spring life, this can vary depending on the quality of the spring and how much it is used. Some springs are not great quality and don't last long, but, with good quality springs you can expect many thousands of shots between servicing. Essentially you do need to consider the spring as a consumable that will eventually need replacement, much like tyres on a car.



    See the Webley pistol top left, this was my Dad's air pistol bought sometime in the 1960's, the spring has been replaced once in its life as has the breech seal.

    The HW45 in 5.5mm to the lower right was my Christmas present in 1986, it is still on its original spring and still puts out a 14.5 grain pellet at around 420 fps - this has accounted for a lot of rats over the years and has been a load of fun knocking down field targets right out to 50m (not first shot, but once the aim point is sussed more hits than misses ).

    Gas rams rely on seals to hold the pressure, they will eventually leak and need servicing, with a proper built in ram as in the original Theoben's and the Weihrauch HW90, seals can be replaced and the ram re-pressurised, with the sealed unit struts they would need replacing but again you should be looking at thousands of shots before servicing, of course you may get the odd dud one with poor seals.
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  15. #30
    Marksman

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dale View Post
    Unfortunately, whether the law is 'silly' we do need to stay on the right side of it, plus there is enough bad press for airgun ownership with idiots breaking the law, don't become a statistic. I would suggest you refer to the sticky thread on the Airgun Discussions page for further information.

    Nice that you have an indoor 'range' - you do know that you can get a shoulder stock for your Crosman 1377. Indoors with two to three pumps and a quiet backstop you should be able to put in some worthwhile practice with it as a carbine. I can manage about 6 metres at home, just enough for some target pistol and bell target shooting, otherwise I have to go to one of my clubs to shoot.

    In terms of spring life, this can vary depending on the quality of the spring and how much it is used. Some springs are not great quality and don't last long, but, with good quality springs you can expect many thousands of shots between servicing. Essentially you do need to consider the spring as a consumable that will eventually need replacement, much like tyres on a car.

    https://www.airrifle.co.za/attachmen...6&d=1570429244

    See the Webley pistol top left, this was my Dad's air pistol bought sometime in the 1960's, the spring has been replaced once in its life as has the breech seal.

    The HW45 in 5.5mm to the lower right was my Christmas present in 1986, it is still on its original spring and still puts out a 14.5 grain pellet at around 420 fps - this has accounted for a lot of rats over the years and has been a load of fun knocking down field targets right out to 50m (not first shot, but once the aim point is sussed more hits than misses ).

    Gas rams rely on seals to hold the pressure, they will eventually leak and need servicing, with a proper built in ram as in the original Theoben's and the Weihrauch HW90, seals can be replaced and the ram re-pressurised, with the sealed unit struts they would need replacing but again you should be looking at thousands of shots before servicing, of course you may get the odd dud one with poor seals.
    Sweet heavens, 50 meters with that pistol is flippin impressive! even if it's not first shot, it still is!

    and yea, I've been toying with the idea of 3d printing a stock for my 1377... like, really toying with the idea... ah screwit, I might print it tonight... might take a long time to finish though...

    and agreed, giving airgunners, the good airgunners any more bad press over doing something stupid and making you guys pay the price is the WAY last thing on my agenda. well, it isn't even on my agenda... I want some slight less restrictions, not more. I'd LOVE to have a .30 cal airgun for example, but right now I'm limited to 217 (4.5mm) but even that is a grey area apparently...

    Airgun laws similar to netherlands or america... ah, I can dream, can't I? sometimes, just sometimes dreams do come true afterall....

    But back to the main point, what you said is reassuring. I'm just paranoid of sometime when I wouldn't be able to find a spring replacement for my springer. Not really sure if making custom springs is an option either... correct me if I'm wrong.
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