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Thread: The 12ft/lb rule.

  1. #1
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    Default The 12ft/lb rule.

    In the June 2005 edition of Magnum magazine,Koos Barnard tested the Air Arms S400 Custom and reported;"So far,I have put close to 1000 pellets through this rifle and it has performed flawlessly.On average,it launches pellets about 30fps faster than my S410 rifle.Air Arms Diabolo Field pellets(8.4gr) leave the muzzle at 814fps while the 10.5gr Crosmans exit at 730fps." He goes on to say;"Just three days after recieving the rifle I managed to win a social FT shoot at a local club." Some would say that 800fps with Crosman Accupels is 12ft/lb,hence being the legal limit,and taking into consideration that the S410 is set at the manufacturers specifications to be at 11 plus ft/lb,would this velocity then not be considered illegal?
    My own rifle was chronographed at Wolwehoek in June at the National Championships.To my dismay,it clocked 10,5ft/lb with what I presume were Bisley Premier's.Yet the manufacturer of my particular rifle claims that they set their rifles up at 11.8ft/lb.Would a Crosman Premier or Accupel which both weigh in at 7.9gr then not give the AA Custom an unfair advantage on the POI at say 35-40 metres before the weight to air resistance ratio sets in hence affecting pellet drop. Yes,I can understand that we don't like to talk about these things, but not all of us can afford a full on competition rifle which is optimally set up as close as possible to 12ft/lb.Almal het darem hulle trots(everyone has got their pride).Is there not some form of standardised system where some form of testing can be done with standardised chrono's using standardised pellets at a standardised temperature and pressure using some form of a barometric calculation to compensate for altitude at all FT shoots worldwide?
    Koos Barnard goes on to say;"In 2001 another prominent British FT shooter,Dale Foster,bought a standard S400 classic for informal target shooting and hunting and found the rifle to be exceptionally accurate--so much so that he decided to have it turned into a 'competition model'."

  2. #2
    Sharp Shooter
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    FALCON , comes down to 1 thing . If you want to cheat a the competitions you are a bad sportsman . I hope that person gets caught and disqualified.I feel that the stoc standard weapons should be to spec and am also disapointed when they test ovet 12 FT/lb.

  3. #3
    Marksman
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    I am missing the point of the above diatribe...

  4. #4
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    I all honesty guys.

    12ft/lb=16 joules=Xfps=Ygr

    Is there anybody out there who can give me the figures to X and Y ?

  5. #5
    Sharp Shooter
    Protea FT Team '08

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    FALCON 8.44 grain pellet at 800 feet per second = 12 foot pounds 8.44 grain is an Air Arms Field Diablo pellet

    Download Chairgun it does it all for you.

    Ft/lb = weight x speed x speed /450240

    weight = Ft/lb x 450240 / speed x speed

    Velocity = sqrt(speed x 450240 / weght )

    Weight = grain
    Velocity = feet per second


    <span class='smallblacktext'>[ Edited Sun Jul 10 2005, 04:47PM ]</span>

  6. #6
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    Thanx Allen. Are all S400 customs then sold off the shelf pushing out AA field diabolo's at plus minus 15fps faster than what they should be doing?

  7. #7
    Sharp Shooter
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    FALCON .dont have any idea what condition the AA are sold in.Should be no problem to get it below 12 Ft/lb. I also thought it was odd.Coming from England where te 12 Ft/lb law is so tough you would think all AA's would be well below 12 Ft/lb.Then again Moose had the same problem with his BSA.
    <span class='smallblacktext'>[ Edited Sun Jul 10 2005, 10:10PM ]</span>

  8. #8
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    i havent found much of a problem though as it really isnt that hard to tune both of the guns down but i find that that is strange coming from a country where the 12ft pounds law is enforced

  9. #9
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    How does atmospheric air pressure etc. etc effect a rifle I'm taking a change by asking this question as I don't know ANYTHING about it.

  10. #10
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    ol'KB, he came to ONE of our shoots only...........it seems he mention about the WIN just about every airgun related article in magnum. interestingly, on that day, we offered him the use of the chrony to check the custom..........he declined the offer saying he knows what it's pushing out............. getting back to the article.........i found the info so "last season" and u guys?

    when i picked up the EV, it was pushing on the 12ftlbs limit.........i was not happy, as i had to turn it down at a later stage. now according to mike and louis, it was set up by NJ himself, intended for KB/magnum to test. perhaps this is why??? also, with my hornet (uk model), it was doing 13.1 ftlbs with baracuda's out the box........maybe bcos the manufacturers knew it was coming to ZA, they didn't bother too much with the 12ftlbs limit???????

    in general, pcp's will shoot more efficiently with heavier pellets. eg my mates s10 does 13.1 ftlbs (cph 10.5g) and 15+ftlbs with dai sungs (16g). however there are other factors to consider such as head diameter/barrel fit, shape....etc and hence different ballistic coefficients. at wolwehoek, the ev pushed out 10.3 ftlbs with the testing pellets, yet it was bang on the 11.6 ftlbs mark with AAF's.




  11. #11
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    Hardy
    why a Steyr LG110FT on your Wish List ?
    Not happy with EV ?

  12. #12
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    hi neil,

    happy with the EV, just thought would like to try the steyr as well............beats socks/golf gadgets/whisky

  13. #13
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    Hi Falcon,

    here's the "original" review.......... [link=hyperlink url]http://www.aftsa.co.za/Pages/reviews/s400_custom.htm
    [/link] have a look see, if you've not already.

    there's a fine line between precision hunter and FT specialist, nowadays i don't think there's any difference in accuracy potential..........

    re the "custom NJ trigger" all new spec S4X0's now come with the 3 sear unit as std. my s410k has got them and was built dec 2004. more value for money i say.
    <span class='smallblacktext'>[ Edited Mon Jul 11 2005, 05:08PM ]</span>

  14. #14
    casper's Avatar casper
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    Why the fuss about fair? Rifles are different. Have a look at this comparrison between a S400 and Webley. http://www.targetshooting.co.za/AAS400.htm
    Both rifles were set over the 12 ft/lb limit as a test. At what pressure will the S400 and Webley be tested at a competition to be fair?
    If you want to compete seriously get the best or know your rifle.

  15. #15
    MOT: Thomson Pneumatic Rifles

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    Hi Guys,

    Read a few more UK mags, the writers are constantly warning shooters to crono thier rifles with a new pellet to check that they are legal. To set any rifle to be within 1flbs either way is fairly easy to make it "legal" with every pellet that you can shoot with it damn near impossible (practical experience).
    Take as large a sample of pelletsas you can get your hands on and do some crono time (do not take the manufacturers pellet mass, wiegh them) and work out the flbs for each pellet, you will be amazed at the spread. Pellets vary in eficiency between barrels let alone brands!

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