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Thread: What if Field Target shoot format is changed?

  1. #1
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    Default What if Field Target shoot format is changed?

    Stoffeltoo wrote:
    While on the topic of Golf............
    My right hemisphere has been churning and chugging more than usual lately. What if scenario.....

    FT is based on a golfers handicap?
    Let me explain.
    Currently every shooter gets one shot per target per lane. PCP is the generally accepted norm for FT.
    Springer air rifles feel left out as they often feel that they have inferior toys and cannot compete.
    Now in golf the basic DIONS spalding would equate a springer and the more expensive clubs and paraphanalia equate to the different classes of PCP.

    The rules are simple.
    Range Par: 10-30m=1
    31-40m=1
    41-50m=2
    Diameter Par= 10mm @10-15m=2 i.e 1+1
    20mm @16-25m=2
    30mm @25-35m=2
    40mm=par

    What happens when a par is missed? Score is added and compared with range best.
    Thus the shooter with the lowest score wins.

    Benefits, shooters will concentrate on the perfect shot and a 3 on par 3 course = a hole in one etc etc

    What should be done to further the sport. Establish permanent ranges with fixed lanes and grade the ranges with difficulty factor taking into account the distance, positional shots, angle of shots etc.

    A team can play a four ball/pellet to determine winner with the lowest score.

    Just some ideas to ponder on a new FT dimension

    and Ogre answered:

    Stoffeltoo, I think that you idea/suggestion deserves a brainstormng session, as there are certainly merits that clubs and airgunning in general will/could benefit from.

    One that springs to mind would be greater participation, therefore better quality facilities and perhaps greater selection of equipment at reasonable prices due to increased demand.

    If nobody takes the initiative to try, no one will ever know........

    and Albereth Commented:

    Stoffeltoo, Ogre. I like what I am reading. I think this would be a marvellous contribution. The league set up could be an early determinant of a shooter's handicap and then have a handicap system for the class of weapon.

    Of course now all this discussion is in the wrong thread. Can the moderators move it?
    and Gerrie wrote:
    Why keep all the UK rules for 10 years with the minimum of minimum change that everybody is proud about and want to enforce to the letter, and then change it in South Africa? You either shoot well or you don't. That was the norm since the first projectile was sent flying in times immemorial.
    In stead of trying to bring your handicap down by shooting better, rather get a springer.(1/2doz of the one and 6 of the other) If you can afford a PCP your handicap goes up(Discrimination against the "rich&quot I, for one, will score if I shoot with a springer,I seldom hit the kill zone, but I hardly miss the animal silhouette.(dont look at the kill zone look at the silhouette around it) With a nice handicap on top, I'll be in the medals all the time. After a while some of us/everybody will know all the courses by hart, country wide. It should be boring to shoot most of them, just like most guys play golf just to get away from the office and wife and kids etc.
    So, let's do it.

    The discussion was on another topic and was requested to be moved to its own topic.
    In addition to the proposal what if the shoot reflects miniaturized game animals like elephant, buff, impala, springbuck etc. etc.
    Maybe put in a buffalo charge with three shots at varying distances and a compacted time limit?

    Just some thoughts which could get this discussion going and benefit ALL air rifle shooters

  2. #2
    Sharp Shooter
    Protea FT Team '08

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    Handicap, that is a plan.Then the new guys wont go home unhappy because they were last again.However I think FT is to improve your skill.If you have a handicap your skill might develope slower.

  3. #3
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    You can run both formats side by side. You will have a winner based on total aggregate score and a winner based on the handicap adjustment. Could be the same person. But that way you still get to enjoy the best of both worlds

  4. #4
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    Point taken. The discussion is going with the pro's and the con's. The handicap system's purpose is not intended to make your skill development slower but to allow noobie PCP shooters and springers to enter the game at a handicap and the good shooters like u and I with a lower handicap to compete against them on an equal footing. This will make the game interesting and fair allowing the different rifle classes to compete on the same range and the same rules.
    See my comment on Sporter, FT open and springer

  5. #5
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    Somebody is still going to be first and somebody last, with or without a handicap.

  6. #6
    Ogre's Avatar Ogre
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    As in social amature golf tournaments There are different classes (A, B and C). Furthermore it is always a good idea to praise the "best" player in the field by rewarding the "best nett" player as well.

    It would really suck if say a +5 handicapper bettered the course record by going 10 under par, but didn't get any recognition because he was beaten by say a 24 handicapper that shot an 84 nett. - well I suppose that even the Goose would have been better off if he never went over 84 LOL.

    Seriously I think you're on to a good thing here.

  7. #7
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    Being an engineer, here is a mathematical handicap system that would award the best shooter, and not the one with the best gun?

    Lets say your group size with your gun (extreme edge to extreme edge) is g millimeters at 30m
    Lets say a circular target of d millimeter diameter is D meters away.

    Now, the chance of hitting the target with a dead rest aiming in the middle is (target area)/(group area at that distance). Lets call this ?hit factor?
    Area=pie times radius^2.
    Using this, and substituting, the chance of hitting the target is (30d/Dg)^2

    So, if you calculate the ?hit factor? for each target on the course for yourself and divide each of your scores by the targets hit factor, then everyone?s score will reflect how well they shot, and not how well their gun shoots.

    For example:

    Take my S400. I can group 8mm edge to edge at 30mm on a bench rest. Thus my hit factor for a 10mm FT at 40m is:
    (30X10/40*8)^2=0.88

    I.e. I would hit the target 88% of the time if I had a bench rest. But I don?t have a bench rest on a FT shoot... So I should divide my actual score on the target by 0.88. That would mean that if I hit it, I would get 1/0.88=1.14 points. Note: If the ?hit factor? is greater than 1, then you don?t need to divide! (you have a scratch handicap on that hole? no strokes allowed?)

    Further proof: Pretend a FT course had 100 10mm targets at 40m (boring I know). If I had a bench rest, my score would be 88. But I shot perfectly? my gun just let me down? If I use the ?hit factor? method, then my score would be 1/0.88 * 88 =100. This is correct because I shot perfectly, thus deserving a perfect score, not the 88 which I would have got in normal scoring

    mmm?

  8. #8
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    Ja well no fine. Can I bring my accountant along to carry my.....what should I bring, a gun or a golf club?

  9. #9
    Sharp Shooter

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    Sorry, but I may just be missing the point here... Wouldn't it just be easier to bring Hunter FT into SA which has a more relaxed set of rules as well as field set-up & to give the Newbies (and myself included as well as quite few other people I can think of) a chance to practice. After our last shoot, we opened the range for practice & it was amazing to see the improvement made in a very short period of time.

    Handicaps as well intentioned as they may be can never replace practice and after that some more practice. I know there are a lot of time constraint on people these days and that practice is not always possible but to me it would then be going the same way as the Tri-Nation where the outcome can depend on the most tries and not the winning team (I understand the concept to improve the spectator enjoyment but a win is a win and a miss is still a miss....)

    By the way I'm not a big rugby or golf fan...

  10. #10
    Ogre's Avatar Ogre
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    Brilliant suggestion Warlocke!

    Perhaps even take it further. Before I carry on, I wish to point out that in no way is this train of thought supposed to be a way to replace FT, but just something that may have a "local flavour" to it. We (SA) are not limited by a power level, but only by a calibre level - why not try things that we are allowed to use. First off (I may be wrong here) isn't FT limited to sub 12ft.lbs purely because some bureaucrat sitting in parliament decided that that's what the limit of unlicenced guns should be?

    Hunter FT - not allowed to change mag, limited to <12ft.lbs etc. What if we tried something that has a limit of .20cal (essentially anything that doesn't require a firearm licence in SA), and allow the power to be unresticted. This would benefit the hunting fraternity worldwide - especially the UK, by showing just how FAC .177 & .20cals can perform. I know that an AA FAC S400 is accurate out to 80 meter shots (probably in the right hands even further).

    Fellow shooters, there are plenty of things we can do in SA which can't be done enywhere else in the world. Why limit ourselves purely because we "want" to.

    I've spoken to guys that have "hot" BAMS and tuned 200's that are way above 12ft.lbs. There are FXs, Weihrauchs, Airforce ........ the list goes on of rifles that are over the "limit". Why not let these owners have some way of competing.

    Just an idea......... BTW good luck to all our guys off to the FT World Champs.

  11. #11
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    here's my 2c worth..........

    FT is not another name for organised plinking session, in its current form it's a very specialised/technical sport just like 10m or 3p.

    at the club shoots, the club can do what ever they feel it's necessary to make the shoot "competitive" to all and attract more shooters into airgunning (ie. "local rules" in golf). eg, at highway airgun club we offer our versions of FT, HFT and metallic silhouettes plus bonous prizes like the golden bunny. so guys pls try out ur ideas at ur next club shoot, let us know the outcome (if it's feasiable/practical...etc)


  12. #12
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    Well said Hardy . Its too easy to bury oneself in complicated rules , have more " fun " type stuff .

    Guys , old & new will enjoy the challenge more .

  13. #13
    Sharp Shooter
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    Hi Chris,

    I think the idea of the handicap is OK, but we have experimented with it on a small scale in the UK and it can be a bit of a pain to administer. My advice would be to stick to the simplest system you can find.

    For instance introduce a spring gun class and let them score using a 2-1-0 system i.e 2 points for a knock down, 1 point for a face plate strike and 0 for a miss. This way the spring gun shooters are only competing against like types (in the same way as when I used to shoot IPSC, I never felt disadvantaged seeing open division shooters as I shot standard class) and the scoring system allows them to come away with a respectable looking score.

    In order to help further the sport in SA if it is possible to establish permanently set out courses, then that will of course aid people who wish to practice regularly - however will it be possible to do that and still have targets by the next time you visit the range?

    Dale

  14. #14
    REP: The Airgun Shop

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    This 2-1-0 system for springers still sound like the best idea.

  15. #15
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    Why must we re invent the wheel. We have a springer class section alias hunters FT and we do have a handicap system, Class A for shooters averaging above 80% Class B for shooters between 60(?) - 79.9% and Claas C for all the rest. That gives ample opertubity for beginners to also win prizes, all we have to do is get more shooters at compwetitions and start implementing the system.

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